10's or 8's...worried about low end.

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Oh, and hoss unless you have a large group of people telling you that you are stupid, and explaning why, in great detail, on a regular basis.... I think you're safe to not worry. But unfortunately Cot does not have that luxury, does he? lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Sorry for the earlier confusion.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

wow, i cant believe this thread is still going on.
also , if all you have to base your argument off of, is just one brand (that is one of the most, if not THE most, overpriced) out of hundreds, its not very valid. they charge you an arm for one of thiers when you could get two of equal quality for the same price elsewhere. your argument is poop.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

sept i compared many different popular brands and didn't find ONE where the 8's were more advantageous... (out of all i looked at)

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

stupid people, they never know they are stupid,

no kidding

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

nope, no typos that i can find...






makin more sense yet? it was just pointing out the irony in the contradiction. i didnt think it was cryptic at all... and it wasnt calling you dumb, it was making light of what you had said. calm down man...

he can't....

by questioning him at all, in his mind you are saying he's not the god of car audio...

you might as well have piszed in his cheerios

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

people telling you that you are stupid, and explaning why, in great detail, on a regular basis...

actually i usually just get ignorant coments that are off-topic and prove them irrelevant and then get called a moron... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

(that means you)

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

sept i compared many different popular brands and didn't find ONE where the 8's were more advantageous... (out of all i looked at)

look at different brands against each other... often times a manufacturer will keep the motor/coil assembly the same, and change the moving parts (mms), and therefore the woofer will have a higher Fs, lower Q, etc with smaller cone sizes.

but the actual cone size itself is irrelevant in the equation, as it can be corrected within the motor.

if you can show me any fact based argument showing where cone size is prportionate to parameters, you will have won. otherwise, you fail again.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

How does one combine economical with a discretionary purchase? Esp. JL audio.
If by economical, you mean cheap, then your comparison is off. You can find some off-made 2" and 3" speakers for as low as .60 on parts express...and enough of them would have more Sd than two tens.

ok this guy says i'm wrong cause you can fill your trunk up with 2's and 3's

Wait wait wait.. Did you seriously just say if one sub displaces more air in a sealed enclosure its going to be louder. What the fuck are you talking about?? There is no way in hell you could ever tell a sub is going to be louder based on driver displacement. That is stupid even for you man. Please for the love of god stop posting for a while and try to freakin learn something.

this guy doesn't even know wat the hell i'm talking about //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

i think you also need to make this distinction. a fifteen will play a 30 hz tone louder than an 8, however it's going to play all tones louder, not just the 30 hz tone. overall iff you were to look at an rta the loudness of the 30 hz tone will be just as proporationate to the rest of the response curve as the 15. make sense?? once you start adding enough 8's to get the cone area the same it should be about the same.

the frequency responce of a bunch of 8's and a 15 will be the same if their cones make up the same total surface area?!?!?! ZOMG //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

Secondly, you've said it about 100x in this thread and your still wrong. Multiple subs are more effecient than 1 larger one, for a variety of reasons. Assume aa single sub off off Y watts hits Xdecibels. Then add another sub without adding power, you're output is now X+3 decibels. By adding a sub, you gained output without adding power, secondly, since each driver is seeing less power, you can actually gain more than 3 decibels, if the first sub was having power compression issues. More potential output with with the same power is more effecient.

so 4 subs taking more power to give less output than 2 subs are more efficient than the 2? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif ZOMG

so again, it's simply an ignorant bias that big speakers cant' play high and smaller speakers can't play low. No real basis in physics or reality. I've got 15's in my basement that wont' make it below 250hz with any output, even with no crossover.

this guy's saying his 15's can't play lows, you know what that means!!! don't buy 15's if you want lows

This thread is really funny....
O BTW...http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215164&highlight=Assassin+low

FS of 47hz and it was hitting 20s???? Blasphemy!!!!!!

yes yes i'm shure op will put an abnoxiously long transmission line box behind his truck seat... he might fit 1 8 in there //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
oh yeah and a tweeter can hit 20 hz.... ....very quietly

my 15" btl has an FS of 36hz. was in 4.5 cubes @ 33hz
my 15" SI mag had an FS of 22hz. was in 4 cubes @ 33 hz

my BTL got a LOT lower than my mag did...

kay if we were talking about porting the subs this would be great

wow, i cant believe this thread is still going on.
also , if all you have to base your argument off of, is just one brand (that is one of the most, if not THE most, overpriced) out of hundreds, its not very valid. they charge you an arm for one of thiers when you could get two of equal quality for the same price elsewhere. your argument is poop.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/read.gif.ff512c499c00ed3faae9a20f4b088b29.gif i compared sevral brands and models and didn't come across one that i looked at that looked like the 8's were a better buy

there is NOTHING scientific or mathematical about speaker design //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
but there is no fact or mathematics to speaker building. just a few known numbers, and alot of hoping it comes out right.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif oh dear baby jesus

so yeah i'm stupid since these are the kind of arguements you say are "proving me wrong"

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

he can't....
by questioning him at all, in his mind you are saying he's not the god of car audio...

you might as well have piszed in his cheerios

He is definitely one of the most informative members of this forum, and open to criticism.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

here's the answer put this in ur truck!!!!

I cant believe this idiot is still here trying to defend him self. I will put a single 8 up against one of your 10's any day......

smart and on topic, instead of turning it into a who's dick is bigger contest, stay on subject

If that would fit in my sig, I'd put it in there with blinking lights around. That is by far the most down to earth, true, and funniest ****ing thing I think I have ever read.
Can anyone get that into my sig with blinking lights? j/w........

i don't know why your saying anything you've had you're own *** ***** on this forum several times, including by me (of all people)...

so yeah there are some more "arguements" for why i'm wrong, see a pattern yet or do i have to do this all day?

here's what i gave

lets try the w1v2.

4 8w1v2's would have a linear displacement potential of 39.209 in^3

@ 400watts

2 10w1v2's would have a linear displacement potential of 40.1415 in^3

@ 300watts

on woofersetc right now...

4 8w1v2's will cost you $400

2 10w1v2's will cost you $220

did i mention that the 8's not only lose in over-all potential but fail in lower-end because of a ((((10 hz difference)))) in Fs?

there is one example of a fail, the first one i compared, i shall continue:crazy:

kickers!!!
the comp 8 vs the comp 10

kicker doesn't provide effective piston area, but we can assume its close to the difference of the jl's

comp 8:

4 8's= $184

@400 watts

Fs= 40.2 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

xmax=.34

comp 10:

2 10's= $108

@300 watts

Fs= 29.4 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

xmax= .38

hmmm 8's FAIL again //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

in the RE line yes according to t/s= the 8's would have a slight advantage, this advantage though seems very mute
since it takes DOUBLE the power and DOUBLE the money to get almost the SAME performance...

ROCKFORD FOSGATE
p1 series

(4) 8"s:

@ 600watts

6720mm^3 displacement P.

Fs= 42Hz

$184

(2) 10's:

@300watts

6480mm^3 displacement P.

Fs= 31Hz

$120

hmmmm ANOTHER fail for the 8's

JL audio...
lets try w7's

4 8w7's:

114 in^3

@1200 watts

Fs= 35.2

$1480

2 10w7's:

107.64 in^3

@1000 watts

Fs= 30.6

$1000

look!!!! we ALMOST have a win for the 8's

but then... AWW FU CK!!!! w7's are a super woofer that you can't fit in the cab of a truck...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif:verymad://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif

mtx 4500 series
4 8"s:

Fs 39.76

28.9044 in^3 potential

300 watts

$192

2 10"s:

fs 25.43

43.6008 in^3 potential

300 watts

$122

another lose for the 8's

HMMM REAL NUMBERS!!!

since we are talking about sealing the subs we can assume that the lower Fs will translate into a lower frequecy responce...

more Sd with the 10's??? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

and more power and price required for the 8's in every tested circumstance?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

He is definitely one of the most informative members of this forum, and open to criticism.

it sure shows:crazy:

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

i'm done i've presented my case i can do no more:emb:

and i have to go study for my mid term i'm taking in 2 hours //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hide.gif.2d479cfd917eedfe201353b91522ceab.gif

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

cotjones why the **** are you posting so much trying to make your point? are you trying to make up for the whole italian chip that cost $8,000??

and FYI massiveaudiocw > you

oh and look. you made my sig with another one of your stupid comments. and BY THE WAY numbers dont determine everything. why then can a sub of 16mm xmax get louder and lower than a sub with 27mm xmax? both 1 way ratings

your argument is completely theoretical and holds no water in reality..

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

sept i compared many different popular brands and didn't find ONE where the 8's were more advantageous... (out of all i looked at)

Comparing subs in the same series is NOT very scientific or methodical. See my post on page 19 again and read it 5 times. Try with everything you have to understand it.

This is just like people who throw 10 different subs in the same enclosure and then claim one better than the other without taking the design of the subs into consideration. People seem to have the idea that all 12" subs should sound good in a xx.xx cubic feet enclosure.

Judging a speaker just by cone area and it's free air resonance is a terrible way to decide which can get lower in some random sealed enclosure. You're leaving WAY too much out of the equation.

Even so, you should never think that all subs within a given series sound the same and that they're designed the same. The reference to the XXX was to show that the 12" is a very versatile driver that could do well ported or sealed and get fairly low in either type enclosure while the 18" is a completely different driver that should only be sealed to get decent sound out of it. Two very, very, different drivers that share the same series.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

cotjones why the **** are you posting so much trying to make your point? are you trying to make up for the whole italian chip that cost $8,000??
and FYI massiveaudiocw > you

oh and look. you made my sig with another one of your stupid comments. and BY THE WAY numbers dont determine everything. why then can a sub of 16mm xmax get louder and lower than a sub with 27mm xmax? both 1 way ratings

your argument is completely theoretical and holds no water in reality..

that stupid comment is true

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

if you said shockwave then yes it would be true..