0/1 gauge wire - less ofc or more cca

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

When you build a setupi that requires that kind of power flow you can talk. When you have done years of testing you can talk. When you have went from CCA to OFC on only 1500 watts and seen gains you can talk. When you say one thing that makes sence you can talk.

When you graduate high school, you can talk. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[los33]

When you build a setupi that requires that kind of power flow you can talk. When you have done years of testing you can talk. When you have went from CCA to OFC on only 1500 watts and seen gains you can talk. When you say one thing that makes sence you can talk.

I can personally say i have built and help build large setups that do 12k and higher.

You do not personally know me so how can you judge me?

Is this what you do for a living? Because im pretty sure if your driving a scion and all yoi could afford was a ford fusion then your not that smart.

All you ever do is come around talking, but can you backup your **** by showing us a real build you have done.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I can personally say i have built and help build large setups that do 12k and higher.You do not personally know me so how can you judge me?

Is this what you do for a living? Because im pretty sure if your driving a scion and all yoi could afford was a ford fusion then your not that smart.

All you ever do is come around talking, but can you backup your **** by showing us a real build you have done.

You still have not filled any of my criteria and yet you still speak. I've got a build log here that ran for 3 years btw. If you have been around longer than a week you would know that.

You know what I do for a living? I go away from my home and my family for 9-12 months out of a year every two years so people like you have the freedom to type dumb things on the Internet.

And how are you going to say anything about my car when you drive a 15 year old Chevy? I would say driving a car that only depreciated 6 grand in 5 years was pretty smart(scion) and since you are a total moron I'll let you know Fusions can top $45,000, not that mine did but it's a lot of car for $30gs

Say something else.. I'm enjoying this

 

[los33]

You still have not filled any of my criteria and yet you still speak. I've got a build log here that ran for 3 years btw. If you have been around longer than a week you would know that.
You know what I do for a living? I go away from my home and my family for 9-12 months out of a year every two years so people like you have the freedom to type dumb things on the Internet.

And how are you going to say anything about my car when you drive a 15 year old Chevy? I would say driving a car that only depreciated 6 grand in 5 years was pretty smart(scion) and since you are a total moron I'll let you know Fusions can top $45,000, not that mine did but it's a lot of car for $30gs

Say something else.. I'm enjoying this

So because your in the corps im suppose to respect you?

I respect what most people go to fight, but its not always to SAVE everyone and make a safer place to live.

So dont start with i fight to make life better for you.. the goverment is more scumm then the terrorists bombing.

Yep my 15 year old gmc is old, but not my only ride. I choose older cars because i buy them wrecked and restore them to sell on my free time.

Im not a jerk to go around showing how much i make like you. Even tho im pretty sure i make double or triple your salary.

Feel like a big man because you bought a car of the year?

Im the guy who makes the parts and inspects them and sets them up so you can pump your gas. You think your so big and high mighty, but your just a *** wanting attention. Your liking this well continue it on your own because im tired of argueing with you over dumb ****. Your cocky and ignorant and have no respect for others opinions because you feel your opinion ls are facts.

 

[fatboytyler]

You still have not filled any of my criteria and yet you still speak. I've got a build log here that ran for 3 years btw. If you have been around longer than a week you would know that.
You know what I do for a living? I go away from my home and my family for 9-12 months out of a year every two years so people like you have the freedom to type dumb things on the Internet.

And how are you going to say anything about my car when you drive a 15 year old Chevy? I would say driving a car that only depreciated 6 grand in 5 years was pretty smart(scion) and since you are a total moron I'll let you know Fusions can top $45,000, not that mine did but it's a lot of car for $30gs

Say something else.. I'm enjoying this

I respect the hell out of our servicemen, but I hate guys who think that just because they're in the military they can act cocky and arrogant. Doing that makes you no better than me or anyone else in this forum.

Fusions also don't top at 45k. They barely hit 40k with all the premium items.

And if you think driving a car that depreciated 6 grand in 5 years then I must be a freaking genius for driving a 15 year old truck who's KBB value is still 6-8k which is around 1k a year in depreciation.

Your comment "Say something else.. I'm enjoying this" shows are ******* ignorant you are.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I'm starting to think that you just enjoy arguing with people.

Took you a while.

It's fu cking aluminum. aluminum is 59% as conductive as copper.

Based on that statement one could infer you don't even know what CCA is.

That video was interesting -- as others have pointed out, it doesn't tell us much of anything as there are very few knowns, but it prompted me to do some simple calculations.

I was able to locate a spec sheet for cca:

http://www.hmwire.com/New%20PDFs/Copper_Clad_Aluminum_10_percent.pdf

There are various grades of CCA, but I'm using the specs for the cheapest (lowest Cu content) available -- 10% Cu.

I'm also going to assume 10' of wire in the video. That may or may not be accurate, but as long as it's consistent the calculations will have value.

4 awg OFC = .0025 ohms/10' : CCA = .00395 ohms/10'

8 awg ofc = .0063 ohms/10' : CCA = .01 ohms/10'

On the 8 awg test the DMM shows V drop of .408v for the OFC.

So at 10' current flow would have been 64.8A

Running that same current through 10' of cheap cca you'd have a v-drop of .64v. However, the gauge shows 2.18v. I find it hard to believe that there are no other factors at play here. To get that level of Vdrop you'd need over 200A.

Expecting similar results with the 4 awg...

Vdrop for OFC = .337v. At 10' the current would be 134.8A.

So correlating Vdrop from CCA should be 0.532v, but it was measured at 2.208 which would require over 500A at 10'.

Something weird is happening. It would be nice if Garry had done a little more to help us understand what that is.

Based on the drastic differences in his results my guess is he's using very good quality OFC and the cheapest under-sized CCA he could find. That's the only logical conclusion I can draw. Unless it's just cranking 2 or 3 times as much current through the CCA. Why he'd do that I don't know.

As far as temperature and resistance. I was surprised to find Aluminum actually has a LOWER temperature coefficient than Copper. So as the wires are heated, copper's resistance increases at a higher rate than aluminum. Copper's resistance will rise 13% faster as it is heated compared to aluminum.

Resistivity, Conductivity and Temperature Coefficients for some Common Materials

FWIW - I am not biased on the OFC/CCA discussion.

My power/grounds are all OFC.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I guess it makes no sence to "argue" with people that think $200 4000 watt amps are good.

 

[fatboytyler]

I guess it makes no sence to "argue" with people that think $200 4000 watt amps are good.

Holy ******* ****. You really are an ignorant little spit ****. When did we say this? Really man, what is it that makes you so ******* ignorant? If you really are 34 years old stop acting like a kid for ****'s sake.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Holy ******* ****. You really are an ignorant little spit ****. When did we say this? Really man, what is it that makes you so ******* ignorant? If you really are 34 years old stop acting like a kid for ****'s sake.

I hope one day you make enough to buy nice stuff. I hope that day you look back and see how ignorant you where. Until then you won't get it. I was the same way, I tried to cut corners and cheap out where I could. It ended up costing more in the long run. I hope it don't cost you as much before you listen to people with real experiance. When I got back into this, biggest mistake of my life I came to the forums seeking advice. Many people said oh get this its just as good and half the price. I listen to those experts. Long story short, those experts where wrong. They followed what other "experts" said and didn't know any better.

 

[tc300 10+ year member]

i would go with ofc... or even some welding wire

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

All of you CCA nuthuggers just like to talk out your A$$, don't you? Even at less than 5 feet, the OFC will run cooler and pass more current then CCA. Why would the test be flawed? Real world testing always trumps formula's on paper. Some ground wiring in the aerospace industry uses silver braided cable which is even more efficient than copper, but a lot more expensive. I won't even get into capacitance, especially over long runs, and how it will affect your power capacity.

I run 1 run of 4 gauge OFC on 1500 watts. My amp draws 140A, the run is 10 feet or less, and no one is actually going to get 100% full tilt out of their amp anyway (except for a split second on a test tone). Technically, the capacity of my run is 150A. If your amp has 0/1 inputs, then it really doesn't matter, but if you have smaller inputs, you have to run reducers. Some people with multiple runs of cable will need additional hardware. The reducer adds cost and also makes your install look hokey - unless you are the typical idiot who shaves down their cables to fit the input.

There are many reasons aluminum wiring was banned from housing several decades ago, but I won't derail this debate any more than it already has been...

Most of the people into car audio (on this forum anyway) have no idea what "quality" is, so its a moot point trying to argue...

Here is an interesting argument about the sound of copper vs. silver speaker cables: what is the difference between copper and silver cable? - Page 2

Some people actually get that technical, when 90% of the people on this forum don't even know about what type of power they are actually feeding their amps... :-/

It looks like the OP also has his ground on a fender bolt or the engine compartment.... You should move it to the frame.

Also, to the people with more positive runs than negative - I hope you do realize that negative electons flow towards positive - your ground is a lot more critical than positive.

 

[fatboytyler]

I hope one day you make enough to buy nice stuff. I hope that day you look back and see how ignorant you where. Until then you won't get it. I was the same way, I tried to cut corners and cheap out where I could. It ended up costing more in the long run. I hope it don't cost you as much before you listen to people with real experiance. When I got back into this, biggest mistake of my life I came to the forums seeking advice. Many people said oh get this its just as good and half the price. I listen to those experts. Long story short, those experts where wrong. They followed what other "experts" said and didn't know any better.

I will make good money one day(Unless my school lies to me...). And then I will be able to go into a build without much to worry about price wise. There is such a thing as cutting corners the right way. If you still do it right, you should never have any issue. Will I ever cut corners on an amp? No. But you can still do wiring the cheap way and do it right. As I said, I won't argue that OFC is better, but for people on budgets you can still do it right on CCA.

All of you CCA nuthuggers just like to talk out your A$$, don't you? Even at less than 5 feet, the OFC will run cooler and pass more current then CCA. Why would the test be flawed? Real world testing always trumps formula's on paper. Some ground wiring in the aerospace industry uses silver braided cable which is even more efficient than copper, but a lot more expensive. I won't even get into capacitance, especially over long runs, and how it will affect your power capacity.
I run 1 run of 4 gauge OFC on 1500 watts. My amp draws 140A, the run is 10 feet or less, and no one is actually going to get 100% full tilt out of their amp anyway (except for a split second on a test tone). Technically, the capacity of my run is 150A. If your amp has 0/1 inputs, then it really doesn't matter, but if you have smaller inputs, you have to run reducers. Some people with multiple runs of cable will need additional hardware. The reducer adds cost and also makes your install look hokey - unless you are the typical idiot who shaves down their cables to fit the input.

There are many reasons aluminum wiring was banned from housing several decades ago, but I won't derail this debate any more than it already has been...

Most of the people into car audio (on this forum anyway) have no idea what "quality" is, so its a moot point trying to argue...

Here is an interesting argument about the sound of copper vs. silver speaker cables: what is the difference between copper and silver cable? - Page 2

Some people actually get that technical, when 90% of the people on this forum don't even know about what type of power they are actually feeding their amps... :-/

It looks like the OP also has his ground on a fender bolt or the engine compartment.... You should move it to the frame.

Also, to the people with more positive runs than negative - I hope you do realize that negative electons flow towards positive - your ground is a lot more critical than positive.

For your real world test, if you're pumping 100 constant amps through an 8 gauge wire of course its going to heat up fast. My real world test has me running 4 Gauge CCA to 1300 Watts (with me playing 90-100% a lot) and not once has that wire even gotten remotely warm. Does CCA provide more voltage drop, yea, I won't argue that, but in most applications if you do it right, you won't notice it (unless you're competing).

And I learned the positive/negative run thing the hard way haha. Best lessons are often the hardest ones... But yea, never again.

Also, how do you like your Dayton HO in your sig? Curious as to how their HO lineup performs. I ran 2 10" Daytons (can't remember model... Like 300WRMS, $70 a piece) and really liked their SQ.

 

[negolien]

So because your in the corps im suppose to respect you?
I respect what most people go to fight, but its not always to SAVE everyone and make a safer place to live.

So dont start with i fight to make life better for you.. the goverment is more scumm then the terrorists bombing.

Yep my 15 year old gmc is old, but not my only ride. I choose older cars because i buy them wrecked and restore them to sell on my free time.

Im not a jerk to go around showing how much i make like you. Even tho im pretty sure i make double or triple your salary.

Feel like a big man because you bought a car of the year?

Im the guy who makes the parts and inspects them and sets them up so you can pump your gas. You think your so big and high mighty, but your just a *** wanting attention. Your liking this well continue it on your own because im tired of argueing with you over dumb ****. Your cocky and ignorant and have no respect for others opinions because you feel your opinion ls are facts.

Sigh spell check can't even help you.

 

[los33]

Sigh spell check can't even help you.

And you choose to insult me for what reason?

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

All of you CCA nuthuggers just like to talk out your A$$, don't you?

I'm not a huge fan of CCA, but I am a fan of science, and that's what I'm trying to get at.

Even at less than 5 feet, the OFC will run cooler and pass more current then CCA. Why would the test be flawed? Real world testing always trumps formula's on paper.

Uh, no.

Formulas on paper (educated people generally refer to this as "engineering") are how we perfect real world application. Only incorrectly applied theory is disproven by testing/application. And in some cases those results can be catastrophic.

Some ground wiring in the aerospace industry uses silver braided cable which is even more efficient than copper, but a lot more expensive. I won't even get into capacitance, especially over long runs, and how it will affect your power capacity.

Silver's main advantage over copper is resistance to corrosion. It's electrical advantage is insignificant (~6%), and copper has better conductivity vs mass.

Capacitance is not an issue - Certainly not in short run power wiring.

unless you are the typical idiot who shaves down their cables to fit the input.

The typical idiot may be intelligent enough to realize slightly reducing cross section over almost zero length has no effect at all on current capacity.

There are many reasons aluminum wiring was banned from housing several decades ago, but I won't derail this debate any more than it already has been...

Yep, poor engineering. Imagine that. The errors have long since been corrected, and aluminum is a common use for residential/commercial electrical wiring today.

Here is an interesting argument about the sound of copper vs. silver speaker cables: what is the difference between copper and silver cable? - Page 2

I REALLY hope that's not a brain-dead discussion on the SOUND of silver.

when 90% of the people on this forum don't even know about what type of power they are actually feeding their amps... :-/

What TYPE of power??

It looks like the OP also has his ground on a fender bolt or the engine compartment.... You should move it to the frame.

Hey! Something of value. Well done.

Also, to the people with more positive runs than negative - I hope you do realize that negative electons flow towards positive - your ground is a lot more critical than positive.

They're of equal importance.