Good battery for a 5k install w 320 amp alternator?

[Kybasshead75]

Beware of Droppin Hz. You will never get a reply from him after you buy if anything goes wrong.

10AH bank for 600$ is straight outrageous and even if it's a 100C discharge and 30C charge rated cell in there you absolutely would not want to be in that position. It'll probably outlast the warranty and it's certainly a convenient package but that thing is a perfect example of selling pixie dust and magic beans. Even the Toshiba SCIB cells aren't claiming that.

Best case scenario all of that marketing is 100% honest, then what? You have your 8,000W amp trying to draw 1000A, this battery (best case scenario) can provide that for half a minute and then your alternator (if you're lucky) is trying to dump 300A of current into it.... better hope that 30C charge rating is legit, now you'll need several minutes at max charge rate to get ready for another 30 seconds of reserve.

IF your application requires just a few seconds of reserve energy you would do better to invest in a super-cap bank. I believe you would do better by planning a battery bank with a bit of reserve in it as opposed to high C rating.

with the sfb 8K I'm going to be running it with 3 12s rated for 1,000 watts each at 2.67 nominal. Realistic power production might be around $4,500 to 5000 Watts. Still kind of worried that might be a bit much for my three 1000 watt subs is it true that turning the games down will lower the power to them? The 5k looks to make around 3k at that impedance.

I did see in the SSA store they had a 40 amp hours already made in a custom case for about $5oo n 80 amp hours for about a thousand, ready to go w a warranty. That might be my best option

Always had great luck with SSA Aaron is awesome

 

[Firewalker]

Can't go wrong with Apex Audio as well they are very good to deal with on warranty and shipping.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

For reference, jy hp-40 has one year warranty, increased to two years if you register it.

@hispls 's thread about his experiment with lithium is really worth reading. Experiment meaning he was the first to document it.

 

[Kybasshead75]

All of the marketing I have seen from any of those folks seems like a lot of snake oil, magic beans, and pixie dust. As far as lithium goes they charge a high premium to put off-the-shelf Chinese cells in a pretty case then over-promise on how much amplifier power they can support.

I went round and round in circles trying to get honest answers from all those clowns before opting on just building my own lithium banks.

Right now I would not bother with LiFePO4 unless you're getting a really good price on some c-max cells and building your own bank. LTO is just superior in nearly every way for our purposes. Yes, you can probably mix and match with AGM and you may still get acceptable lifespan from your batteries but I would not recommend as they will not want to rest at the same voltage and one will always be parasitic off the other. 40AH trying to power a 5000W amp (I thought you were running an 8k?) is really pushing your luck though. Depending on your install and listening habits it might be adequate but you could just as easily put yourself into a position where you're using that battery at it's absolute max limits.

Lasly your 350A or whatever alternator will not put out anything near what you think it will outside of a test bench in optimum conditions. I'd consider that a "peak power" rating until proven otherwise.

Looks like Apex audio is selling 40 amp hours six packs of lto's for 379, and the hardware will add another 120. that would end up being around the same price as a ready-made and warrantied 40 amp hours from custom electric at the SSA store. I'm thinking since I work so much I might be better off just getting one already made for a little higher price I could start with the 40 amp hours ready to put in the vehicle. it's tempting to get the 80 amp hour version for a thousand since it only weighs 10 lb more and is twice the power as I'm concerned about weight also.
I'm still open to the idea of getting two six packs for $758 but apparently you need a balancer hardware and the know-how to put it all together which I don't have yet. Looks like the difference might be about 150 to $200 which I'd almost rather spend just to have it ready instead of having to build it. Either way I think 80 amp hours should do it.
Still kind of worried that that sfb 8K running at 2.67 ohms will be too much for my 3K rated subs. The 5K might be enough looking at about 2,700 to 3K at that impedance.

 

[John Doe]

Looks like Apex audio is selling 40 amp hours six packs of lto's for 379, and the hardware will add another 120. that would end up being around the same price as a ready-made and warrantied 40 amp hours from custom electric at the SSA store. I'm thinking since I work so much I might be better off just getting one already made for a little higher price I could start with the 40 amp hours ready to put in the vehicle. it's tempting to get the 80 amp hour version for a thousand since it only weighs 10 lb more and is twice the power as I'm concerned about weight also.
I'm still open to the idea of getting two six packs for $758 but apparently you need a balancer hardware and the know-how to put it all together which I don't have yet. Looks like the difference might be about 150 to $200 which I'd almost rather spend just to have it ready instead of having to build it. Either way I think 80 amp hours should do it.
Still kind of worried that that sfb 8K running at 2.67 ohms will be too much for my 3K rated subs. The 5K might be enough looking at about 2,700 to 3K at that impedance.

I was thinking the same thing when I planned on getting a LTO. And again, same thought you had when I saw CES’s 40AH LTO & 80AH. Ended up going with an XS Power 80AH Yin Long from DroppinHZ though for like $1200 with the charger

 

[John Doe]

Beware of Droppin Hz. You will never get a reply from him after you buy if anything goes wrong.

10AH bank for 600$ is straight outrageous and even if it's a 100C discharge and 30C charge rated cell in there you absolutely would not want to be in that position. It'll probably outlast the warranty and it's certainly a convenient package but that thing is a perfect example of selling pixie dust and magic beans. Even the Toshiba SCIB cells aren't claiming that.

Best case scenario all of that marketing is 100% honest, then what? You have your 8,000W amp trying to draw 1000A, this battery (best case scenario) can provide that for half a minute and then your alternator (if you're lucky) is trying to dump 300A of current into it.... better hope that 30C charge rating is legit, now you'll need several minutes at max charge rate to get ready for another 30 seconds of reserve.

IF your application requires just a few seconds of reserve energy you would do better to invest in a super-cap bank. I believe you would do better by planning a battery bank with a bit of reserve in it as opposed to high C rating.

I emailed the like 3 times last week asking about when my battery would be shipped and never heard anything back lol even though he’s live on FB like all the time doing dumb ass giveaways. Commented on a sponsored post about where my tracking # is and they finally ended up getting back to me.
Also kinda funny how his requirements to enter some of his giveaways is having people just give his business a 5 star review LMAO this will be my first & last time buying anything from this retard

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Always had great luck with SSA Aaron is awesome

SSA seems very reliable and I'd say dollar for dollar even at 1000$ for 80AH you're getting more for your money performance wise than buying premium AGM like Northstar, XS, or Kinetic... and that's not even counting on LTO outlasting them by at least double.

apparently you need a balancer

I'm not entirely sold on the need for that with these LTO cells, certainly it is optimum but until someone disects one of these ready-made units do we even know for sure if any of them are using balancing? Barring outrageous abuse or manufacturer defects these cells should outlast AGM by a long shot with or without. If you're buying the 80AH pre-made you might want to double check the max charge rating. The cylindrical 40AH cells are just about 2 pounds each so an additional 6S should be 12 pounds plus busing hardware. Mind you, 5S banks should do fine BUT you will not want to charge them beyond 14.3 or 14.4V so if your alt puts out to 14.8 you might be running them hard. That said, I believe IF you could charge to 14.4 5S banks would probably be optimum.

this will be my first & last time buying anything from this retard

In fairness when I spoke with him, he seemed like a decent guy who knew his stuff, but I think he is just in way over his head with his shop and either doesn't have time or doesn't prioritize customer service after the sale.

 

[Kybasshead75]

SSA seems very reliable and I'd say dollar for dollar even at 1000$ for 80AH you're getting more for your money performance wise than buying premium AGM like Northstar, XS, or Kinetic... and that's not even counting on LTO outlasting them by at least double.

I'm not entirely sold on the need for that with these LTO cells, certainly it is optimum but until someone disects one of these ready-made units do we even know for sure if any of them are using balancing? Barring outrageous abuse or manufacturer defects these cells should outlast AGM by a long shot with or without. If you're buying the 80AH pre-made you might want to double check the max charge rating. The cylindrical 40AH cells are just about 2 pounds each so an additional 6S should be 12 pounds plus busing hardware. Mind you, 5S banks should do fine BUT you will not want to charge them beyond 14.3 or 14.4V so if your alt puts out to 14.8 you might be running them hard. That said, I believe IF you could charge to 14.4 5S banks would probably be optimum.

In fairness when I spoke with him, he seemed like a decent guy who knew his stuff, but I think he is just in way over his head with his shop and either doesn't have time or doesn't prioritize customer service after the sale.

I'll go test my alternator again but last time the mechanic told me it was charging high at like 14.8 or 14.9. it's a mech man 320 amp

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'll go test my alternator again but last time the mechanic told me it was charging high at like 14.8 or 14.9. it's a mech man 320 amp

You must make sure you get 6S bank if you're buying LTO if you are charging that high. In fact even if it might charge that high sometimes you had best stick to 6S. Over charging can definitely hurt batteries. LTO will not fail catastrophically (read: explode or catch fire), but you definitely don't want to hose your investment in half a year.

 

[Kybasshead75]

You must make sure you get 6S bank if you're buying LTO if you are charging that high. In fact even if it might charge that high sometimes you had best stick to 6S. Over charging can definitely hurt batteries. LTO will not fail catastrophically (read: explode or catch fire), but you definitely don't want to hose your investment in half a year.

just got on the SSA store and double checked those batteries are rated to charge safely up to 16.2 volts and said they will hold voltage better if your alternator can charge at 14.8 Plus. Looks like I'd be good to go with one of those custom electric already made batteries that's not really too much money for having it all done put together and ready
I work so hard that the extra one or $200 it would cost would be well worth my time it would take me longer to make the batteries and put it all together then to just pay the extra money.
It also makes me feel better dealing with Aaron at SSA again and having a warranty on it knowing that it's ready to go to spec.

 

[Kybasshead75]

You must make sure you get 6S bank if you're buying LTO if you are charging that high. In fact even if it might charge that high sometimes you had best stick to 6S. Over charging can definitely hurt batteries. LTO will not fail catastrophically (read: explode or catch fire), but you definitely don't want to hose your investment in half a year.

I appreciate you helping me out bro these are the details I wanted to make sure we're correct before I pull the trigger!
I'm still a little worried about the sundown sfb 8K toasting my three SQL 12 rated at 1K each at 2.67 ohms.
My boy pop war homie said to get the 8K because the three subs won't realistically see the 5,000 Watts that amp is rated for around that impedance but dynos show those amps do a little over.
I just watched the sfb 5K do 3,200 w at 2 ohms and it's my understanding that running smaller sealed enclosures actually makes the impedance increase on your amp as it has to work harder.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I work so hard that the extra one or $200 it would cost would be well worth my time it would take me longer to make the batteries and put it all together then to just pay the extra money.

Indeed, if you don't have plenty of free time and just want to do the project for the sake of doing a project, paying the premium for something tailor made from a reliable company (like SSA) definitely has value.

My boy pop war homie said to get the 8K because the three subs won't realistically see the 5,000 Watts that amp is rated for around that impedance but dynos show those amps do a little over.

Has he offered to repair or replace your subs for you if you do wind up melting them?

Don't get me wrong, I'd buy the 8K as well for a number of reasons but NOBODY can guess what your impedance will actually be at any given frequency, nor how much average power over time your woofers will actually be seeing when you're riding along playing your favorite playlist. I also don't know a whole lot about that particular woofer and what they use for a coil so I can't speculate how close their rated power is to true (it'll take XXX watt sine wave clamped for 8 hours straight) continuous power handling. I will say that that amp will almost definitely have enough power on tap to smoke your subs if you're not careful so at the end of the day it'll be up to you to feel out their limits depending on what sort of music you play and how hard you're trying to push things.

Having extra power on tap will probably be very helpful but be aware that what those subs will handle for dynamic peaks is going to be way different than what they'll be happy with for continuous power. You could probably do any three songs off of Black Sabbath Paranoid album in a row full tilt without breaking anything but your subs would likely be close to failure before the end of one re-bassed or woofer test type track. Buy the big amp, but be careful. 5000W is more power than all 4 burners on your kitchen stovetop combined and is simply a lot of heat for little copper coils pumping away to try to dissipate.

 

[Kybasshead75]

Indeed, if you don't have plenty of free time and just want to do the project for the sake of doing a project, paying the premium for something tailor made from a reliable company (like SSA) definitely has value.

Has he offered to repair or replace your subs for you if you do wind up melting them?

Don't get me wrong, I'd buy the 8K as well for a number of reasons but NOBODY can guess what your impedance will actually be at any given frequency, nor how much average power over time your woofers will actually be seeing when you're riding along playing your favorite playlist. I also don't know a whole lot about that particular woofer and what they use for a coil so I can't speculate how close their rated power is to true (it'll take XXX watt sine wave clamped for 8 hours straight) continuous power handling. I will say that that amp will almost definitely have enough power on tap to smoke your subs if you're not careful so at the end of the day it'll be up to you to feel out their limits depending on what sort of music you play and how hard you're trying to push things.

Having extra power on tap will probably be very helpful but be aware that what those subs will handle for dynamic peaks is going to be way different than what they'll be happy with for continuous power. You could probably do any three songs off of Black Sabbath Paranoid album in a row full tilt without breaking anything but your subs would likely be close to failure before the end of one re-bassed or woofer test type track. Buy the big amp, but be careful. 5000W is more power than all 4 burners on your kitchen stovetop combined and is simply a lot of heat for little copper coils pumping away to try to dissipate.

That is what I figured I'm almost going to join the dark side and run all three of them ported which I can do in this vehicle easily as it would be definitely louder and I could smell them crying for mercy whereas sealed I could not. If I use a smaller box volume I can reduce the group delay and will still have great sound quality I'm sure. Three ported 12s in a little Civic should be enough lol.
I might just have to try it both ways to make sure as I don't mind doing different builds!

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Three ported 12s in a little Civic should be enough lol.
I might just have to try it both ways to make sure as I don't mind doing different builds!

IF you don't like ported you can always seal off the port and fill up box volume to shrink that as needed. Not sure if those subs you bought are going to model well ported though. You'd want to look into that before using them for an application for which they may not be intended.

We did 3 12s in my brother's civic in a wall build. I can't imagine you have a lot of space for that if you're stuck in the trunk but I can tell you that you will definitely be happy you got into Lithium. Those things sit low in the first place and they're not meant to have hundreds of pounds in the ass end.

 

[Kybasshead75]

IF you don't like ported you can always seal off the port and fill up box volume to shrink that as needed. Not sure if those subs you bought are going to model well ported though. You'd want to look into that before using them for an application for which they may not be intended.

We did 3 12s in my brother's civic in a wall build. I can't imagine you have a lot of space for that if you're stuck in the trunk but I can tell you that you will definitely be happy you got into Lithium. Those things sit low in the first place and they're not meant to have hundreds of pounds in the ass end.

Yeah I understand that they are rated 1.6 to 2.2 cubes ported as well. I'm actually considering doing only two of them as they weigh 32 lb each and box size would be about right with 30 lb less.
Buck the box designer recommended me trying infinite baffle as well which would save a whole lot on weight.
If I ran all three ported I would have to go with the minimum recommended which is 1.6 after all displacements and I'd have to run the port up through the rear deck on all three which conveniently have the three factory holes that will fit a 4 inch aero Port right through there and give me a game from bouncing the port off the back window. It would work fine if I sealed everything off completely so there's no rear wave interference. That is likely to be my loudest setup right there.