XXX vs. MX

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Spiders loosen up on all subs. It's not a flaw. The XXX Truck has 1,000rms going to each sub in a enclosure that is tuned @ 28Hz. It plays the lows like no other. For example, 155+ @ 30Hz sealed up. When the spiders would loosen up, the subs would bottom out. Sure, this is a worse case scenario. Or best case however you look at it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Well, to an extent yes, the spiders are always going to increase in Cms a bit, but it shouldn't be too dramatic of a change, or that begins to suggest the spiders aren't sufficient for the stress they are dealing with.

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

That's my point, exactly.

Exactly, so why would you think the XXX or any other sub won't bottom out after the spider becomes soo loose it becomes useless?

 

[mannyb18b]

everyone stay calm..interweberz getting angry.

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

Well, to an extent yes, the spiders are always going to increase in Cms a bit, but it shouldn't be too dramatic of a change, or that begins to suggest the spiders aren't sufficient for the stress they are dealing with.

Exactly. That was my only problem with the older XXX.

Hell, I still have a few layin' around the shop we still play with 'till this day. Along with the MX, 06XXX, SX, MT, etc...

 

[expo5.0 10+ year member]

as a complete adjunct- i have run 3 mtx 9515-44s in an enclosure tuned to 30 hz with 1800 rms per sub for at least 50 hrs with no apparent affect on the woofers themselves...

I have just now recently gotten into the re/usamps game- but it wouldnt' be cool if they do "break in" to the degree you experienced... (although, i don't believe it)

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Exactly, so why would you think the XXX or any other sub won't bottom out after the spider becomes soo loose it becomes useless?

Dude, you aren't getting my point. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

You admit all subs' spiders loosen over time. My question to you is, why do you suggest this iis a flaw in the 05 xxx. Are you saying their already notoriously stiff suspension is not stiff enough? Definitely not a problem on my xxx's. lol

In other words, are you saying other comparable subs (say a Brahma) in the same situation, your install, your tuning, your power etc would not experience the same suspension failure?

Is that more clear?

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Exactly. That was my only problem with the older XXX.
Hell, I still have a few layin' around the shop we still play with 'till this day. Along with the MX, 06XXX, SX, MT, etc...

I admittedly am not a big fan of the spider they used on that driver, but I honestly have never encountered one where the suspension was completely shot. Maybe some drivers shipped out with some poorly treated spiders? Who knows.

So I'll revise, when functioning as intended, I'd take a XXX over an MX.

 

[mannyb18b]

Ya but no fun in that...things are fun to beat up on.

 

[95stroked1500 10+ year member]

What on earth are you talking about? Once the spider is installed, you aren't going to be able to "tune it".
Lastly, it's 100% science.

A spider needs to do 2 things, and 2 things only:

1) Provide the desired Cms for the application

2) Allow a minimum of lateral movement of the coil

Thats it. There are no magical special art qualities, it provides the required Cms, and doesnt allow the coil to move excessively in a lateral fashion.

The only speaker I know of with a "tuneable" spider is the Stroker, and even then, all you are doing is adjusting the coil's centering, which can hardly be called "tuning" the spider.

let's just say that's one more area i have been blessed to have been shown.

the proof is in the pudding. the day any of you can produce as fine as speakers as the builder who opened my eyes, then i will consider your idea's with validity. and your abilities to produce better surpass those of any high end brand you've ever heard.

if designing and building a great speaker was so simple and common science, any one would be able to produce something on par (without knocking off) with dynaudio, dls, scan speak, focal, etc.. there would be no low end sounding speakers. but the fact is, no matter how hard the majority of speaker builders try, some will never on their own, produce anything other than typical run of the mill sound.

the difference between someone locked in on the "scientific" approach and never venturing from it, and someone who has figured out the art of it.

is there a scientific explanation for it? sure. doesn't mean it's understood at this point and time. or at least those who can formulate it keep it secret. and it is experience that tells that high end speaker builder what to tweek where on the spider to change the sound in what area of the speaker. that much i will share.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

let's just say that's one more area i have been blessed to have been shown.
the proof is in the pudding. the day any of you can produce as fine as speakers as the builder who opened my eyes, then i will consider your idea's with validity. and your abilities to produce better surpass those of any high end brand you've ever heard.

if designing and building a great speaker was so simple and common science, any one would be able to produce something on par (without knocking off) with dynaudio, dls, scan speak, focal, etc.. there would be no low end sounding speakers. but the fact is, no matter how hard the majority of speaker builders try, some will never on their own, produce anything other than typical run of the mill sound.

the difference between someone locked in on the "scientific" approach and never venturing from it, and someone who has figured out the art of it.

is there a scientific explanation for it? sure. doesn't mean it's understood at this point and time. or at least those who can formulate it keep it secret. and it is experience that tells that high end speaker builder what to tweek where on the spider to change the sound in what area of the speaker. that much i will share.

Yes, he has obtained the true essence of the spider. There really isn't anything all that incredible that's required. You design the spider appropriately for the application. In most cases, you want the flattest possible Cms, with a spider or spiders which can adequately support the amount of moving mass in the system. Ideally, it should have absolutely NO impact on the sound whatsoever. It should provide relatively constant compliance and prevent lateral coil movement, and that's honestly about all an awesome spider should ever do.

There isn't a single thing in a spider that cannot be nearly perfectly predicted with FEA, so if you want to sound like you know something by attempting to imply there's some sort of magic or voodoo involved in designing a good loudspeaker suspension, go for it. Can't say that I care much either way.

 

[zebo 10+ year member]

You can do XBL^2 with multiple coils, and I am rather sure that is still what that driver is using. Pretty sure they just chose to stop calling it XBL^2 in the design, which Adire gives you the right to do when you license the technology.

yep, like the parthenon. The reason I said that is because I recall david explicitly saying that it doesn't use xbl^2, guess that could mean they just don't "call" it that anymore. I haven't been able to look at a cross-section of the motor so I can't really say for sure, just going by what the company has said.

 

[80INCHES 5,000+ posts]

They do sound decent...and can be used for SPL...some people use them. I totally agree.
But it's nowhere near a SQ sub.

tuan

i can seee y its being used as a spl sub

it has a neo mag so it has more bl than a standard mag...but the only draw back is when the magnet heats up the bl drops..

80

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

let's just say that's one more area i have been blessed to have been shown.
the proof is in the pudding. the day any of you can produce as fine as speakers as the builder who opened my eyes, then i will consider your idea's with validity. and your abilities to produce better surpass those of any high end brand you've ever heard.

if designing and building a great speaker was so simple and common science, any one would be able to produce something on par (without knocking off) with dynaudio, dls, scan speak, focal, etc.. there would be no low end sounding speakers. but the fact is, no matter how hard the majority of speaker builders try, some will never on their own, produce anything other than typical run of the mill sound.

the difference between someone locked in on the "scientific" approach and never venturing from it, and someone who has figured out the art of it.

is there a scientific explanation for it? sure. doesn't mean it's understood at this point and time. or at least those who can formulate it keep it secret. and it is experience that tells that high end speaker builder what to tweek where on the spider to change the sound in what area of the speaker. that much i will share.

I can tell you are not an engineer, or even remotely close. A speaker's spider plays a specific role, it restricts motion. That motion is predictable, the forces on the cone and spider are predictable, and you've simply fallen for some voodoo someone told you.
Or, can you even suggest one single facet of a subwoofer's normal operating conditions that cannot be explained mathematically, predicted before hand and prepared for?

This is not rocket science, its not voodoo, and its not sculpting. It is predictable physics, science, math. Everything else is just witch-doctory.

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Thou shalt not get in an argument with warbleed.....because they shall lose

SIG that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

 

[95stroked1500 10+ year member]

doesn't the saying go though shalt not argue with ignorance, because they'll drag you down to their level and beat with experience?

i never claimed to be an engineer. but i have been shown things by some of the best in the industry, you guys will never grasp.

yes, FEA, LEAP, dumax, etc, etc. are valuable tools and will get you close. then comes that last 10% that is the most critical and the most time consuming to perfect. which doesn't come by use of any modeling program. and that is where most eveyone falls short.

you guys can stupify and fool those who don't know any better with all your pure science and physics approaches. it only works that way on paper. keep inflating your own sails, you will never have me fooled.