XXX vs. MX

[mannyb18b]

Great, lower distortion at what listening levels. At normal listening levels neither of the subs are moving far enough to distort. Plus, when does output have anything to do with SQ? When I'm setting up a true SQ vehicle, finding which sub will have more output never comes to mind.

But you don't understand!!! the elv of the diameter of the XXX makes it a superior moofer. Not even considering the fact that the dx8^4 technology it uses is much more advanced than the MX's geo 2.2.si motor.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

I'm talking after maybe 20-30hours of play, useless... For accuracy at least.

Unless the suspension was allowing a gross level of lateral movement of the coil, a reduction of Cms isn't going to matter, other than your initial box choice may need a slight adjustment.

Cms does not equal accuracy in any way, shape, or form however...It effects low frequency extension and box size for a given alignment, and to a certain extent, motor strength, as an excessively stiff suspension can increase Qes.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Great, lower distortion at what listening levels. At normal listening levels neither of the subs are moving far enough to distort. Plus, when does output have anything to do with SQ? When I'm setting up a true SQ vehicle, finding which sub will have more output never comes to mind.

The XXX will have lower distortion at just about ANY output level. Remember, what woofer you LIKE, and which has less distortion aren't necessarily the same thing, if your ego is willing to concede that, which it probably isn't.

For ANY musical application, given even remotely similar displacement levels, I'll always take the driver with lower BL distortion. Remember Ryan, BL distortion = 70%+ of ALL loudspeaker distortion. Given that we are comparing a standard overhung driver with a 22mm xmax to an XBL^2 driver with 32mm of xmax, it's not difficult to figure out which drivers comes out ahead in terms of distortion or output.

As far as why I mention displacement difference, even if the MX DID use a flat BL technology for the motor and coil design, it still has about 50% less displacement than the XXX, so it would still end up with higher overall distortion at most output levels. I thought that was fairly obvious.

 

[mannyb18b]

nice edit

 

[95stroked1500 10+ year member]

lol, maybe spec for spec, but not in real world application. And this is opinion is coming from a someone who has been an RE Dealer for 5 years and install countless number of both the XXX and MX's. This is also coming from the dealer that "Beta" tested the XXX and MX for 6 weeks before it was release to anyone else in the country. But my opinion is worthless because as stated before, I'm stupid and ignorant.

what's real world and who acutally listens to speakers? i thought people only plugged numbers into winisd and then argued about which sounded better and which was louder because the simulation results said so. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

more people who say the "walk" doesn't always reflect the "talk".

there's lot's of us stupid and ignorant people all over. all this time i thought i was alone! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

yep........ skewed comparison, something wrong with our ears, wrong settings, psychoacoustics, ....... has to be some explainable mis-hap reason why real world results don't match what an imcomplete predicted simulation says.

 

[mannyb18b]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/popcorn.gif.32dd9e22fd77e77bc3c907062768fcd2.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I've had both, I also agree with the other members. I think the MX has superior accuracy over the '05 XXX. After the older XXX's suspension loosened up, it was worthless imo. So, I guess I'm stupid and ignorant.

Im no RE dealer, and I didn't beta test anything, but I have run a 05 XXX longer than 20-30 hours, well enough for the suspension to fully loosen up, and I never experienced a loss of accuracy over this period.

Most all drivers' suspension loosens as it 'breaks in'... are you surmizing the 05 XXX reacted abnormally to all these other subs when this occurs? And as Warbleed is saying, suspension stiffness should have virtually no role in the driver's audible accuracy... that's a popular myth.

Anyone who says a first gen XXX cant be labeled a 'SQ' sub has never run one in a nice sealed box. I have, they sound clean. Their only downfall (besides efficiency) is upper bass extension. Better run some good midbass drivers with a XXX.

 

[mannyb18b]

what's real world and who acutally listens to speakers? i thought people only plugged numbers into winisd and then argued about which sounded better and which was louder because the simulation results said so. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
more people who say the "walk" doesn't always reflect the "talk".

there's lot's of us stupid and ignorant people all over. all this time i thought i was alone! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

yep........ skewed comparison, something wrong with our ears, wrong settings, psychoacoustics, ....... has to be some explainable mis-hap reason why real world results don't match what an imcomplete predicted simulation says.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

The XXX will have lower distortion at just about ANY output level. Remember, what woofer you LIKE, and which has less distortion aren't necessarily the same thing, if your ego is willing to concede that, which it probably isn't.
For ANY musical application, given even remotely similar displacement levels, I'll always take the driver with lower BL distortion. Remember Ryan, BL distortion = 70%+ of ALL loudspeaker distortion. Given that we are comparing a standard overhung driver with a 22mm xmax to an XBL^2 driver with 32mm of xmax, it's not difficult to figure out which drivers comes out ahead in terms of distortion or output.

As far as why I mention displacement difference, even if the MX DID use a flat BL technology for the motor and coil design, it still has about 50% less displacement than the XXX, so it would still end up with higher overall distortion at most output levels. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Well listening to both in the same application. I will take my more accurate Woofer (MX) over the woofer with less distortion (05 XXX) any day of the week.

Accuracy is very important in my SQ setup at normal listening levels. Especially when distortion doesn't come into play at normal listening levels.

You can throw out output levels in this argument. Because we're basing which sub will have more SQ. SQ = accuracy with low distortion. The XXX doesn't have the accuracy that i'm looking for.

 

[mannyb18b]

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't xbl^2 cause the sound to be a little muddy?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

XXX has lower distortion than MX, period. As for accuracy, how do you scientifically define 'accuracy' in your system? If you are talking about freqs above 60hz or so, yeah I bet the MX does better. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif But below that, well the MX has got the whole more distortion thing going against it.

I dunno, not trying to argue your 'opnion' is wrong. Its just when you add in comments like 'accuracy' and 'distortion'... well those are facts not opinion, and at least on the distortion argue, MX loses.

 

[go_go_thrash 10+ year member]

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't xbl^2 cause the sound to be a little muddy?

I have heard xbl^2 woofers referred to as somewhat anemic, but never muddy.

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

Im no RE dealer, and I didn't beta test anything, but I have run a 05 XXX longer than 20-30 hours, well enough for the suspension to fully loosen up, and I never experienced a loss of accuracy over this period.
Most all drivers' suspension loosens as it 'breaks in'... are you surmizing the 05 XXX reacted abnormally to all these other subs when this occurs? And as Warbleed is saying, suspension stiffness should have virtually no role in the driver's audible accuracy... that's a popular myth.

Hmmm, We had to replace the XXX's in the XXX Truck twice over time because the suspension became sooo loose you couldn't even play them anymore or they would just "bottom out" at 1/2 power.

If that's not a loss in accuracy, I don't know what is.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't xbl^2 cause the sound to be a little muddy?

LOL Then why would they ever utilize it? No, of course it doesn't. What it does however is remove so much distortion, that to many ears it doesn't sound 'normal' because to them normal includes the even-order harmonics present in every other speaker topology (non BL optimized). IOW, people are use to hearing this distoriton, so when a driver like xxx (or brahma, ava, koda, etc) comes along without it, people (sometimes) dont like it. *shrug*
But some people need to realize the difference between accuracy and personal preference. Same old arguement we've had here 1000 times before.

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

XXX has lower distortion than MX, period. As for accuracy, how do you scientifically define 'accuracy' in your system? If you are talking about freqs above 60hz or so, yeah I bet the MX does better. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif But below that, well the MX has got the whole more distortion thing going against it.
I dunno, not trying to argue your 'opnion' is wrong. Its just when you add in comments like 'accuracy' and 'distortion'... well those are facts not opinion, and at least on the distortion argue, MX loses.

So, what is opinion here and fact. The fact is, the MX is more accurate. And will have more distortion at any volume level because the lower BL and the lack of XBL^2. But the distortion of both woofers doesn't come into play in my SQ setup at normal listening levels.