Wiring W7's Ohm Loads

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

Squeak, I respect your opinion more than almost anyone on this forum, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Saying that JL would be out of business if their products were overpriced is simply erroneous. I think we will all agree that gas costs too much, but we continue to buy it. Ultimately, it comes down to how you define "overpriced". The way I see it, if a person can get the same, or at least comprable, performance out of two products, but one costs twice as much, that product is overpriced. There are a lot of factors in question when considering whether JL is overpriced or not. Some people don't know what they can get for less money, some are willing to pay for the name. I just don't see how you can say that a product can't be overpriced if people continue to pay for it. The way we define the word may be different, but to my mind, your arguments just don't hold much ground.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Squeak, I respect your opinion more than almost anyone on this forum, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Saying that JL would be out of business if their products were overpriced is simply erroneous. I think we will all agree that gas costs too much, but we continue to buy it. Ultimately, it comes down to how you define "overpriced". The way I see it, if a person can get the same, or at least comprable, performance out of two products, but one costs twice as much, that product is overpriced. There are a lot of factors in question when considering whether JL is overpriced or not. Some people don't know what they can get for less money, some are willing to pay for the name. I just don't see how you can say that a product can't be overpriced if people continue to pay for it. The way we define the word may be different, but to my mind, your arguments just don't hold much ground.

You can't compare JL audio's products to gas. Gas is a comidity that is artificially price fixed by an oil cartel. We pay dollars per gallon for it because we have to, not because we want to. If OPEC did not exist, gas would be cents on the gallon and the arab and south american countries we buy from would not be nearly as rich, or in as much shit, as they are now.

JL audio isn't overpriced. JL knows they are well known and well respected by many, in the same way BMW is well known and well respected. Thus, they can push teh prices of their products and still make profits and sell in large quantities. Many people OOOOO and AWWWWWW at the sound and sight of JL and will throw down thousands of dollars for JL products without doing their research first. I wouldnt put it past most that understanding the technical side of audio that we study isn't possible. I know most guys at my alma mater could never understand basic electrical laws and Thiele/Small parameters. The guys at JL audio are smart business men.

I respect JL for this reason, but I would also never buy from JL unless one of their products was priced more closely to products I'm currently looking at. I am not a person that can just throw 1000 dollars down for an amp that doesn't fold my laundry, make me breakfast and write my term papers along with amplifying a passband. 400 dollars for 1000 watts, I can deal with, 1000+ dollars for the same deal I cannot.

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

It's all in how you look at it. To me, JL products are definitely overpriced. They just aren't overpriced enough to cause the majority of their customers to look elsewhere. Most of those people do not know that there are better options. If they know that, and continue to buy JL, they are paying for a name, something most educated car audio enthusiasts are not willing to do. The BMW example doesn't really apply. Really the only vehicles that offer the level of performance and refinement found in a BMW product are typically within the BMWs price segment.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

It's all in how you look at it. To me, JL products are definitely overpriced. They just aren't overpriced enough to cause the majority of their customers to look elsewhere. Most of those people do not know that there are better options. If they know that, and continue to buy JL, they are paying for a name, something most educated car audio enthusiasts are not willing to do. The BMW example doesn't really apply.

Name means alot. Around here people OOOOO and AWWWW at the sight and sound of Arc, Audison, Sinfoni, Zapco, etc. I have never actually seen any technical information to back up the price tag of these amps, yet we all take them to be top notch. I have though, seen technical information used to discredit the likes of Audiobahn, Kicker, Pyle, etc. Name means a lot, no matter what circle you travel with. Those Arc, Audison, Sinfoni and Zapco amps are just taken to be the best, no one questions them. JL's name is so strong that is has captured the minds of many an attention desiring young man who is either unwilling or unable to really do research and see what else is there. I don't blame them though, car audio is FILLED with bullshit up to eye level.

Really the only vehicles that offer the level of performance and refinement found in a BMW product are typically within the BMWs price segment.

Acura, Infiniti and Lexus beg to differ by a long shot.

 

[dkguitarist 5,000+ posts]

i have a 13w7 i bought used. only reason i have it is because it's my dream sub. i love how it looks and performs. i still paid more than i wanted to for it.

an audio store up here was gonna give me a discount and do $740 authorized for a 1000/1 and i could've done a credit kinda payment for it. but i knew there was better for less.

but if all these rich ppl that have money to just throw around like candy wanna buy jl, they will. even if they can do better, they still have money to burn so it really doesn't matter to them what they get.

gotta consider that as well.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

i have a 13w7 i bought used. only reason i have it is because it's my dream sub. i love how it looks and performs. i still paid more than i wanted to for it.
an audio store up here was gonna give me a discount and do $740 authorized for a 1000/1 and i could've done a credit kinda payment for it. but i knew there was better for less.

but if all these rich ppl that have money to just throw around like candy wanna buy jl, they will. even if they can do better, they still have money to burn so it really doesn't matter to them what they get.

gotta consider that as well.

Yes, thats what I'm trying to say. I know kids that have blown an entire months paycheck on one JL woofer when they could have redone their entire front stage for the saem price. They love JL for some reason, and are willing to spend big bucks for it.

I have to say though that I think all of us need to go through such a frivolous spending stage so we can learn the value of money and see that spending large amounts of money on something isn't really worth it sometimes.

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

Say you happen to buy a honda civic and get it as fast as say a brand new, whatever top of the line mercedes, bmw, porsche, or the like. (very general comparison here) and you think you're getting the same performance for half the cost.While this MIGHT be true, does it make a mercedes? Or a porsche?No it doesn't.Is it better than them because it costs less? No.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Say you happen to buy a honda civic and get it as fast as say a brand new, whatever top of the line mercedes, bmw, porsche, or the like. (very general comparison here) and you think you're getting the same performance for half the cost.While this MIGHT be true, does it make a mercedes? Or a porsche?No it doesn't.Is it better than them because it costs less? No.

Ok so are you trying to say that a woofer that is not as well known will never be a W7 even if it performs as well as or better than a W7?

Ideas about car audio are completely subjective and not quite on the same level as cars. I measure the coolness of my system by the engineering, thought and planning put into it, not because it has some companies name on it. When you get down to it, there are many companies out there with equally competent engineers designing parts. I'm trying to find the company that will sell said parts to me for the lowest price, I couldn't care less about who is more well known or which one makes my penis look larger. Thats just me. If JL could give me a 13W7 for 250 dollars I'd probably be all over it, but Sound Splinter will sell me an RL-P15 for about the same price. The two woofers are both excellent on paper and will displace about the same amount. Both will sound excellent so why should I spend 4 times as much for the JL?

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Mountaineer Man, I have to comment on your ideas about hip hop music. A good amount of the comercial stuff you hear on the radio is garbge but you should really dig down and listen to the good stuff before you knock it. Hip hop is just as legitimate as any other form of music.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Hintzyboy, I don't think you are fully understanding what I am saying.

You might personally feel JL is not worth the price when there are competitive products on the market at lower price points. That's fine. That's your personal opinion.

However, to state JL being overpriced is a FACT is simply incorrect. If it was a FACT JL was overpriced, JL would be out of business. Basic business, simple economics. The very fact that they continue to sell a very large quantity of product proves they are priced appropriately for their position in the market. You might not personally like the pricing structure; but your personal opinion is irrelevant to the market as a whole.

Don't confuse your opinion for factual information. The two are not related.

To me, JL products are definitely overpriced.

That's your opinion.

Not a fact.

They just aren't overpriced enough to cause the majority of their customers to look elsewhere.

That's your opinion.

Not a fact.

Most of those people do not know that there are better options.

That's your opinion.

Not a fact.

There are plenty of very knowledgeable individuals who purchase JL Audio products who would disagree with you.

If they know that, and continue to buy JL, they are paying for a name, something most educated car audio enthusiasts are not willing to do.

That's your opinion.

Not a fact.

There are plenty of very knowledgeable individuals who purchase JL Audio products who would disagree with you.

JL has been around for quite a while, and build a great quality products with great performance and support at a price point that falls within their budget range. Many educated car audio enthusiasts would rather spend a little more on a quality product from a national company that we can be fairly certain will still be around for many years to come, then save a little money and go with a fly-by-night internet operation that might not be around for too much longer.

But, again, regardless of who their customer base is, there is a very large portion of the consumer base who are willing to purchase JL Audio products at their current pricing structure. You might not be one of those, and that's fine...you can have your opinion. But your opinion is not fact. The FACT is that there is a very large portion of the consumer base who are willing to purchase JL Audio products at their current pricing structure. And they are the proof that JL is not overpriced, because if JL being overpriced was a FACT that portion of the customer base would not exist.

JonT already covered why you can't gas prices, a commodity upon which every nation in the industrialized world is completely reliant on, to a luxury item purchased for pure enjoyment purposes.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

but you know why?couse most people that buy it, they dont know any better

1) That's your opinion, not a fact.

2) It doesn't matter who the customer base is. They are there, as proof that the products are priced appropriately for their position in the market. If JL was overpriced for their position in the market, they wouldn't sell any product.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

its people that dont know there are other products out there for less and have the same performance if not better

1) That's your opinion, not fact.

2) There is a large portion of knowledgeable enthusiasts who purchase JL Audio products.

There are competitive products at different price points for every product in every market segment. The fact that product X is cheaper than product Y is not "proof" that product Y is overpriced. If it were overpriced for their position in the market as a whole, no one would by them.

 

[PatFitz9 10+ year member]

i think you guys are confusing overpriced with expensive...

i can buy a corvette Z06 for much less than a ferrari. when i take them to the track they will put up similar numbers. but that doesn't mean the ferrari is overpriced, it's just expensive //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

and yeah, i got my JL used cuz i wasn't going to pay full price for it. but ya know what? the sub kicks *** and thats all that counts.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

im not saying i hate JL audio.all im saying is its overpriced

like squeak9798 said "their target market."

its people that dont know there are other products out there for less and have the same performance if not better

Besting a W7 woofer is going to be a difficult feat. Looking at the T/S parameters reveals a great woofer with a competant designer. Not too many woofers can compete with it and at that level, your going to have a hard time telling the difference.

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

If you can find me a sub, half the price of the 12" w7 (About $400-$500) AUTHORIZED BRAND NEW, made by a manufacturer that has been around longer than five years, that'll get just as loud, if not louder off of the same power, available to anyone who wants it anytime, work in the same size or smaller boxes (manufacturer recommended), backed with good customer service, and of the same quality I will admit I am wrong.I didn't list SQ because that is very subjective.