why that was nice

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

First of all... where did I say that I was the person that needed the hand out. I don't know what the makeup of your community was, but there are a lot of factors involved in stunting the growth of certain communities. If you want to look at statistics, then you'll notice that there is a correlation between poverty and pregnancy rates. The fact that you had two parents with working jobs says something. There are plenty of areas where mass lay-offs. Don't think I'm saying people shouldn't work hard. I'm saying that there are examples of people that do all that they can and it still isn't sufficient. There's a difference between being in the lower-middle class and being impoverished. It's hard to get out off a certain economic bracket when the system is built to keep people in debt: credit cards and loans. I'm not a major in economics... far from it... biochem and molecular bio. But I'm telling you what I have observed. Nobody can based the world off their personal experiences. So we have two cases, what I've noticed, and what you've noticed. This is why there are disparities in any argument and debate is good to foster new ideas on how to solve problems. Work harder is not the best solution when the economy plays a part. No matter what statistics say, pockets don't lie.

(when I say 'you' below, I am not talking about you in particular)

1. Should I be responsible for subsidizing the lack of forward thought of America's youth? I guarenteed that I would not have a child in high school by not having ***. Call it lame, stupid, call it whatever you like; having *** in high school is not a requirement for graduation. Althought there are instances of ****, I would be you 10:1 that 90% of teenage pregnancies are because of poor decisions. They don't think or don't care about their future.

Me and a friend (who is a 2nd year @ Temple Law) have this experiment. If one day, we come wealthy enough...we are going to walk through random neighborhoods and write checks for $10,000 and see how fast the people waste it. If 1 in 100 turned their life around, it would be all worth it. I somehow doubt that many would make wise choices, if they were smart enough to turn their life around with $10k, they probably are not poor. But I believe a small fractional percentage of the poor has all their ducks in a row and if given the proper chance, or break, they would be successful.

I think the poor are poor because they didn't either have a plan or didn't properly execute it. I see these kids on Oprah and and various other shows saying they want be be a doctor, lawyer, chemist, etc. They are doomed to fail...they have no idea how to get from point A to point B....which is the REAL problem, there are no role models for the poor class to show them the way to meet their goals without scamming them with these self help books.

2.

There is nothing inherently wrong with credit cards or loans. I made a loan to pay for school and made a loan to purchase my truck. I borrowed at reasonable rates (4.75% and 5.55%, respectively) I also have a couple credit cards. I use them nearly everyday...But I also don't pay any interest because I make good decisions with them. It's not that credit is inherently bad, as it allows one to do things they could not do otherwise, it's people who can't handle credit demanding credit is the problem. I got in my first argument with my current gf because she has a loan where she pays 18%...18%....outrageous....but I have a plan to fix it but still.

3.

I never said simply "work harder". I say work smarter. I am a "wanna-be economist / investor," and because of that I am shielded from the effects of layoffs, fires, job got destroyed by Katrina, etc., and investing is something everyone can do.

 

[wheeler8921 10+ year member]

Ya know... I am personally affended that they would even say this considering all this money to get into all this debt in the first place comes from the top 1% of rich people in our country!!
They should be the ones gettin taxed out the *** to help bring this debt down. How's that for a thought... Fckin idiots...I swear the people who run this country a fckin retards.

Are you out of your mind? Take away from the people who work hard for their money?! Sure some people inherit their wealth, but to the people who work their ***** off to make the money they earn just to help the lazy ****s who don't give two shits and have no desire to work to make a living, instead they rely on the government to wait on them hand and foot. Get out their and make something of yourself you dirty hippy, if it wasnt for the democratic party people would see that in order to eat, live, and survive, they must work for it. Without all these funds set up to help the lazy ***** in this country, we wouldnt have half the debts we have today. PERIOD.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I think we need to think long term. I think if we made larger investments in education the results would not be immediate, but the future would definitely be brighter because we would have a greater wealth of intelligence to find new ways to bolster the economy. Technology is taking the place of the type of job your father worked. Manufacturing jobs are either being outsourced, or they're finding machines that can do the work that a person once performed. Machines will work for lower wages and don't expect promotions I suppose.

My father is lucky in that he works for a company where it requires a human to do the job and by the time the technology is there, he will be retired. Outsourcings is limited as there are negative savings during shipments. The product must be temperature controlled from production to utilization...moving across the ocean on a barge makes the product too hot and spoiled. Again, that is by a stroke of luck.

I don't think throwing money at the problem in the solution. What we need is a total shift in how we go about educating...we spend too much time focusing on things that aren't really relevant and not enough times on things that are. Instead of spending time talking about the history of our government, perhaps we spend more time talking about decision making skills and understanding the real consequences of our actions. "Think sexytime is great fun? Well, did you know it costs xx.yy to raise the child, it will be hard to make enough money to raise the child because you can't afford school and childcare...as social benefits are cut, you become stuck." or "Selling dope is not a good occupation. Did you know the average drug dealer makes less than the minimum wage? And if you are the 'best drug dealer' then you have to worry about kingpin laws or worse getting killed by a rival". Those are real lessons that I think would have a far greater impact. Instead of heart-moving movies, maybe show videos of people getting beat down with baseball bats in a drug related robbery. Show videos of people stealing from their grandmother to fund their next fix. Teach people to be forward thinking. You can throw a trillion dollars in our school system and nothing will change until we change what and how we teach.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

BooYah!!2!!

 

[staypuff 10+ year member]

hehehehe.....

i think your next President will go by the name of Wang... or Lee.... or maybe Yung...

hope you all like fortune cookies.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

hehehehe.....
i think your next President will go by the name of Wang... or Lee.... or maybe Yung...

hope you all like fortune cookies.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

The asians are already divesting out of dollar.

 

[jrerun21 10+ year member]

(when I say 'you' below, I am not talking about you in particular)
1. Should I be responsible for subsidizing the lack of forward thought of America's youth? I guarenteed that I would not have a child in high school by not having ***. Call it lame, stupid, call it whatever you like; having *** in high school is not a requirement for graduation. Althought there are instances of ****, I would be you 10:1 that 90% of teenage pregnancies are because of poor decisions. They don't think or don't care about their future.

Me and a friend (who is a 2nd year @ Temple Law) have this experiment. If one day, we come wealthy enough...we are going to walk through random neighborhoods and write checks for $10,000 and see how fast the people waste it. If 1 in 100 turned their life around, it would be all worth it. I somehow doubt that many would make wise choices, if they were smart enough to turn their life around with $10k, they probably are not poor. But I believe a small fractional percentage of the poor has all their ducks in a row and if given the proper chance, or break, they would be successful.

I think the poor are poor because they didn't either have a plan or didn't properly execute it. I see these kids on Oprah and and various other shows saying they want be be a doctor, lawyer, chemist, etc. They are doomed to fail...they have no idea how to get from point A to point B....which is the REAL problem, there are no role models for the poor class to show them the way to meet their goals without scamming them with these self help books.

2.

There is nothing inherently wrong with credit cards or loans. I made a loan to pay for school and made a loan to purchase my truck. I borrowed at reasonable rates (4.75% and 5.55%, respectively) I also have a couple credit cards. I use them nearly everyday...But I also don't pay any interest because I make good decisions with them. It's not that credit is inherently bad, as it allows one to do things they could not do otherwise, it's people who can't handle credit demanding credit is the problem. I got in my first argument with my current gf because she has a loan where she pays 18%...18%....outrageous....but I have a plan to fix it but still.

3.

I never said simply "work harder". I say work smarter. I am a "wanna-be economist / investor," and because of that I am shielded from the effects of layoffs, fires, job got destroyed by Katrina, etc., and investing is something everyone can do.

See, this is why education is a big part of the picture. No doubt the majority of impoverished people go to public school. We all pay for that. Unfortunately, the education in that system is not up to par in every district. I had to fenagle the system just to go to school out of my district so I could have a real chance. Unfortunately, if everyone did the same thing, the practice would immediately be halted. Even at this better school, there were teachers that would change a failing grade to an A if a parent complained. Luckily, I grew up in a private school before I entered the public school system and made sure to fight my way out of English Second Language classes I obviously did not belong in. I made sure I didn't take the easy way out under any circumstance.

There are a lot of youth that are forced by parents to quit school to work on account of their inability to bring in enough income. I hope it's understood that many communities have negative sentiments towards a government that often enacts legislation that is particularly harder on certain communities (i.e. harsher punishment on crack than cocaine.) Since you're going in to law I pray you're one of the good guys.

I do agree with your point on a lack of role models to exemplify ways to get from point A to point B.

The pregnancy issue is not just within the teenage population. My theory is that a baby always brings joy, and impoverished people need something to be happy. There is also education that plays a part. Lack of information on preventing pregnancy, which has turned around substantially within the last couple of years. However, it's another case where education plays a key role.

I know there's nothing inherently wrong with credit cards. Credit cards are supposed to be a means of paying for things without having to carry around the money you already have. People use it as a means of paying for things they can't afford, which is the same thing a loan is for. Nobody has a guaranteed prosperous future. So loans and using credit cards without money are a set up for failure.

I still stand by the fact that people that choose to work a little less to qualify for welfare and be able to support their family are smarter than those that work harder and still can't support their family.

 

[jrerun21 10+ year member]

What exactly does that mean?

Sorry, I'm trying to infer that often times lower economic communities have higher pregnancy rates. If you try to relate it to survival of the fittest... you have more children because there is a higher probability that some of your offspring won't survive. (That's the explanation I was given in class although I totally disagree with it.)

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

There are a lot of youth that are forced by parents to quit school to work on account of their inability to bring in enough income. I hope it's understood that many communities have negative sentiments towards a government that often enacts legislation that is particularly harder on certain communities (i.e. harsher punishment on crack than cocaine.) Since you're going in to law I pray you're one of the good guys.

I do agree with your point on a lack of role models to exemplify ways to get from point A to point B.

The pregnancy issue is not just within the teenage population. My theory is that a baby always brings joy, and impoverished people need something to be happy. There is also education that plays a part. Lack of information on preventing pregnancy, which has turned around substantially within the last couple of years. However, it's another case where education plays a key role.

1. I have never seen an instance of that. 100 years ago, maybe. Perhaps I am insulated, but I haven't seen an issue where a person quit school to help out on the farm or get a low-paying job or something. Not saying it doesn't happen, I have just not observed it.

2. Finance, not law. Friend is in law school...I am getting my MA in economics.

3. Interesting, never heard this point of view. A baby wouldn't bring me joy, as all I see it as a cost center (yes, I do take things too far sometimes)...but a better question is should being poor disqualify one from having a child. On one hand, I say yes because I do not want to support it. On the other hand, it is human nature to wish to create offspring, no matter what kind of life you can provide for them.

 

[jrerun21 10+ year member]

My father is lucky in that he works for a company where it requires a human to do the job and by the time the technology is there, he will be retired. Outsourcings is limited as there are negative savings during shipments. The product must be temperature controlled from production to utilization...moving across the ocean on a barge makes the product too hot and spoiled. Again, that is by a stroke of luck.
I don't think throwing money at the problem in the solution. What we need is a total shift in how we go about educating...we spend too much time focusing on things that aren't really relevant and not enough times on things that are. Instead of spending time talking about the history of our government, perhaps we spend more time talking about decision making skills and understanding the real consequences of our actions. "Think sexytime is great fun? Well, did you know it costs xx.yy to raise the child, it will be hard to make enough money to raise the child because you can't afford school and childcare...as social benefits are cut, you become stuck." or "Selling dope is not a good occupation. Did you know the average drug dealer makes less than the minimum wage? And if you are the 'best drug dealer' then you have to worry about kingpin laws or worse getting killed by a rival". Those are real lessons that I think would have a far greater impact. Instead of heart-moving movies, maybe show videos of people getting beat down with baseball bats in a drug related robbery. Show videos of people stealing from their grandmother to fund their next fix. Teach people to be forward thinking. You can throw a trillion dollars in our school system and nothing will change until we change what and how we teach.

I definitely agree with you here. I don't think investing in education is just monetary. Although the whole scaring people of death won't work in certain communities. When you have a life expectancy of 25 yrs, you already know what's killing. Most of the time is being cynical and feeling that every part of the system is against you that give a lot of inner city youth the feeling of f*ck the system and f*ck the world.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Sorry, I'm trying to infer that often times lower economic communities have higher pregnancy rates. If you try to relate it to survival of the fittest... you have more children because there is a higher probability that some of your offspring won't survive. (That's the explanation I was given in class although I totally disagree with it.)

Nice sidestep.

+1 for you.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I definitely agree with you here. I don't think investing in education is just monetary. Although the whole scaring people of death won't work in certain communities. When you have a life expectancy of 25 yrs, you already know what's killing. Most of the time is being cynical and feeling that every part of the system is against you that give a lot of inner city youth the feeling of f*ck the system and f*ck the world.

Our course we would have to tailor the education to the community...which is why I am opposed to standardized testing. The standard is not a "fair" one. Just like it is inappropriate to hold the black community to the white "standard", it is equally inappropriate to hold the poor to a wealthy "standard".

 

[jrerun21 10+ year member]

3. Interesting, never heard this point of view. A baby wouldn't bring me joy, as all I see it as a cost center (yes, I do take things too far sometimes)...but a better question is should being poor disqualify one from having a child. On one hand, I say yes because I do not want to support it. On the other hand, it is human nature to wish to create offspring, no matter what kind of life you can provide for them.

Yeah... I think that its the actual act that can be enjoyable... but after my dream last night of randomly adopting a baby, I can somehow see the joy in just having a kid. Wierd I know.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Nice sidestep.
+1 for you.

Indeed.

He must have learned from hitman's failure.

I guess i will have to save the social science research methodology pwning for another day.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Yeah... I think that its the actual act that can be enjoyable... but after my dream last night of randomly adopting a baby, I can somehow see the joy in just having a kid. Wierd I know.

You didn't really answer the question

Should income be a determining factor in your "right" to procreate?