why that was nice

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I'm reading this book right now 'Ordinary Men' that basically says we are all capable of it.

It's preferable to be accepted by the group and participate in horrible acts than it is to be ostracized by the group and refuse to participate. This is true even when there is little consequence for refusing to participate.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Then your beliefs obviously go against murdering(like most sane individuals). Their beliefs didn't instill this as "bad". Instead they found it empowering.

That is not true.

Most of the people in the battalion i am referring to were old enough to remember life before the Nazi party took control.

They were not raised to believe in the Nazi party doctrine and were too old to have internalized the ideology as the only acceptable paradigm.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

I'm reading this book right now 'Ordinary Men' that basically says we are all capable of it.
It's preferable to be accepted by the group and participate in horrible acts than it is to be ostracized by the group and refuse to participate. This is true even when there is little consequence for refusing to participate.

Of course. It is even worse when beliefs are involved. People die for someone else's beliefs everyday. If you believe and the people surrounding you believe what you are doing is right, why not pick up an accordion? If you ask me, there weren't nearly enough fruity drinks with umbrellas in the porch scene.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

That is not true.
Most of the people in the battalion i am referring to were old enough to remember life before the Nazi party took control.

They were not raised to believe in the Nazi party doctrine and were too old to have internalized the ideology as the only acceptable paradigm.

Are you telling me people can't shift belief structure or be convinced otherwise when adults? Then why were christian missionaries so successful?

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

That is not true.
Most of the people in the battalion i am referring to were old enough to remember life before the Nazi party took control.

They were not raised to believe in the Nazi party doctrine and were too old to have internalized the ideology as the only acceptable paradigm.

I grew up in a highly Catholic family and was quite the little christian. I have since switched to believing in no god as an adult.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Furthermore, the testimony gathered indicates a strong sense of shame and guilt was felt by the participants, far from a sense of empowerment.

Talking about the events was considered completely taboo.

Also, the psychological toll that this type of activity (up close and personal mass shootings) takes is one of the reasons that the Nazis stopped doing it and began to use more removed and less personal forms of extermination...ie the gas chambers.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Are you telling me people can't shift belief structure or be convinced otherwise when adults? Then why were christian missionaries so successful?

No I'm telling you the backgrounds of the people involved in this particular case was not that of the perfect little Nazi. Few of them were party members and many had previous affiliations at odds with the Nazi party.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Furthermore, the testimony gathered indicates a strong sense of shame and guilt was felt by the participants, far from a sense of empowerment.
Talking about the events was considered completely taboo.

Also, the psychological toll that this type of activity (up close and personal mass shootings) takes is one of the reasons that the Nazis stopped doing it and began to use more removed and less personal forms of extermination...ie the gas chambers.

I'm sure they did, after the fact. When a group is broken up, the failed mission loses it's backing obviously. Now they are in an environment that doesn't agree with them. Of course they won't offer it up as the good ol' times. You could even say they switched their beliefs AGAIN. If they didn't believe what they were doing was right, then how did that many people end up in that situation? They believed right up until they were defeated and they had no remorse at the time they did it. Remorse came in after the fact.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I grew up in a highly Catholic family and was quite the little christian. I have since switched to believing in no god as an adult.

Most of the men were middle aged... not quite the same as being raised one way but altering your views once you begin to mature and define your belief system for yourself.

It would seem to me that mass shootings.. and i mean basically shooting women and children in the head, one after another, for 12-14 hours a day, would be a little stressfully and probably more difficult by the time you were over the hill and had a family of your own.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure they did, after the fact. When a group is broken up, the failed mission loses it's backing obviously. Now they are in an environment that doesn't agree with them. Of course they won't offer it up as the good ol' times. You could even say they switched their beliefs AGAIN. If they didn't believe what they were doing was right, then how did that many people end up in that situation? They believed right up until they were defeated and they had no remorse at the time they did it. Remorse came in after the fact.

No remorse came almost instantly for many. Multitudes of people quit mid stream or stopped hitting their targets.

Alcohol was provided in great amounts and the entire event was taboo immediately afterward.

Basically they did it to fit in.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Besides i thought this topic was a big disappointment for you?

 

[60ndown 10+ year member]

i still think whats happening in the world today is horrific.

and i do nothing to help,

because its just too big,

and ive seen what happens when people do try to do something.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Besides i thought this topic was a big disappointment for you?

It is, but I was bored and this thread was here. Next time I will just revive a classic or something.

 

[Decado2 10+ year member]

i think you are a loser and so does flip, but he will talk to anyone about finance.

I know you both do, but at least it sounds as if Flip knows what he is talking about in his field!

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

sounds like.