why does this piece of paper move so much?

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

******* you're retarded. That is for an organ, NOT a definition for the sound spectrum. Sub = below, thus subbass means below bass level. A woofer reproduces bass notes, while a SUBwoofer, makes notes below that of a woofer. People tune subwoofer enclosures in the 40hz area because it's next to impossible for main speakers to pick up those notes, but a subwoofer can easily cover them. If this still eludes you, then I'll just stop arguing and go on my way.

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

******* you're retarded. That is for an organ, NOT a definition for the sound spectrum. Sub = below, thus subbass means below bass level. A woofer reproduces bass notes, while a SUBwoofer, makes notes below that of a woofer. People tune subwoofer enclosures in the 40hz area because it's next to impossible for main speakers to pick up those notes, but a subwoofer can easily cover them. If this still eludes you, then I'll just stop arguing and go on my way.

lol, ok, you keep telling yourself that...

why would you tune a "sub woofer" to 40Hz? what about all the 30hz content in music? and lower? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif lol edit: like the 17Hz in organ music...

it may be impossible for the front speakers in a CAR to play 40Hz, but then, I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT A CAR NOW AM I!!!!! freakin morons... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

so, basically, you're telling me not to tune my front speakers to 40Hz, because, in a car, the front speakers cant play that low? lol, that just makes NO sense whatsoever!!!

like I said, get a clue, then get back to me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

lol, ok, you keep telling yourself that...
why would you tune a "sub woofer" to 40Hz? what about all the 30hz content in music? and lower? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif lol edit: like the 17Hz in organ music...

it may be impossible for the front speakers in a CAR to play 40Hz, but then, I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT A CAR NOW AM I!!!!! freakin morons... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

so, basically, you're telling me not to tune my front speakers to 40Hz, because, in a car, the front speakers cant play that low? lol, that just makes NO sense whatsoever!!!

like I said, get a clue, then get back to me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Like I said, I'm not going to argue with you since it seems you have zero knowledge of home audio. However, I'll humor you for a minute. You tune a subwoofer box higher to allow the speaker to have boosted output in that frequency range. Bass below that is far more visceral instead of loud to the ear. Again, a ported enclosure doesn't just produce the notes you tune it at well, it merely boosts the output around the selected frequency, at the expense of those further around it. If you cannot understand that, then don't bother reading further.

Now, can home speakers play to 40hz? Yes. Will they have any decent output? No, not at all. Midrange speakers are just that. They are designed to produce voices and higher bass notes, not notes below ~50-60hz. You can use larger or more drivers yes, but you are still missing the purpose of the cone in the first place. Your woofers, however, can reproduce 40hz tones far more easily. Now comes to the point of the discussion: your lack of crossover circuitry. Had you run your mids in a 2.5 way setup where some are devoted to mids and the rest to the lower audio spectrum, you would be far better off than running 8 midrange speakers full range and expecting them to be able to reproduce notes from 3000hz to 40hz. They cannot do that efficiently because they are not made to play that low or high. You want to crossover your mids/woofers where you begin to lose output, which is usually around 60hz or so. You will have boosted output at this level which is good for hiding where your subwoofer picks up. If you tune to 40hz, you are sacrificing output where it is most needed, aka the lower and midbass notes which do not come through with the same output as your vocals. Now, do you understand what I've been trying to tell you all along? There is no reason to tune your front speakers down to 40hz because they are not made to reproduce sounds down there. In essence, you have a large bass box that has two tweeters in it.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with car audio. If you would have cared to look around, I'm a home audio guy who happens to build car audio enclosures. Nothing more, nothing less. I have never had a subwoofer in my car, but have had around 30 different subwoofer enclosures in my room over the past 4 years.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

in theory, the enclosure is tuned to 40Hz... in practice, it has most output at around 30Hz...

For further evidence, I'll assume that you have modeled this and will assume that this is true. Just think about that, most output at 30hz. Your subwoofer should have most output at 30hz, not your main speakers which should reproduce your voices.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

I think that more than anything, the reason you're having trouble understanding what I'm trying to say is that you're looking at your home speakers from a car audio approach. A room does not behave like a car, you have no cabin gain (room gain exists, but is completely different), and you will hear everything that the speakers are playing, or not playing. In a home, it's startlingly apparent what the speakers are producing, or are producing poorly.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Just a little FYI PV, not supporting his tuning at 40 HZ because I totally agree with you on that...

But even a driver with minimal excursion can play sub bass(below 50 HZ) frequencies very efficiently using the right box (such as a TQWP). In fact i much rather cross my sub over at around 50 Hz anyway...or maybe you dont need one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Would you call me crazy if i told you I can make a 25 dollar 8 inch fullrange driver have extension down to the high/mid twenties in room with a fairly small footprint? Cause we can....

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

For further evidence, I'll assume that you have modeled this and will assume that this is true. Just think about that, most output at 30hz. Your subwoofer should have most output at 30hz, not your main speakers which should reproduce your voices.

the reason it has most output at 30Hz, is because, as the enclosure is, with a single woofer, its acting like a transmission line...

once the other woofers are in the enclosure, it wont be loudest at this point.

I give up, you clearly have no idea...

I have no idea why you think that I'm the one looking at this from a car audio point of view, seeing as clearly you're the one who is looking at it this way!!!

"People tune subwoofer enclosures in the 40hz area because it's next to impossible for main speakers to pick up those notes, but a subwoofer can easily cover them"

clearly, this only applies in car audio, seeing as alot of home audio setups have no subwoofer, and only have fronts, which happily play down into the 40 or 30Hz region.

you have no idea, so, shut up, and piss off.

why are you talking about cabin gain? how has anything I've said have anything to do with that? I'm saying that my front speakers will be used down to 50Hz, and the sub will take over below that... how is this making ANY reference to cabin gain? lol

I dunno, some people must just be born wankers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

Would you call me crazy if i told you I can make a 25 dollar 8 inch fullrange driver have extension down to the high/mid twenties in room with a fairly small footprint? Cause we can....

my two 4inch midrange drivers, with an FS of around 100Hz, and 5watts rms power handling, not to mention about 83dB efficient, did 126dB at 44Hz, in a station wagon...

not to mention, my two $15 each 6.5inch woofers, playing near flat down to 35Hz, at 120+dBs in room...

but hey...

oh, and, my old front tower speakers... tuned to 30Hz... ofcourse, they wont play to 30Hz will they, cos they're front speakers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif that makes no sense whatsoever... lol

oh well...

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Just a little FYI PV, not supporting his tuning at 40 HZ because I totally agree with you on that...
But even a driver with minimal excursion can play sub bass(below 50 HZ) frequencies very efficiently using the right box (such as a TQWP). In fact i much rather cross my sub over at around 50 Hz anyway...or maybe you dont need one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Would you call me crazy if i told you I can make a 25 dollar 8 inch fullrange driver have extension down to the high/mid twenties in room with a fairly small footprint? Cause we can....

No no no, I completely understand that. Note that I said SPEAKER, not driver. A home SPEAKER is not made to play that low, but yes the drivers themselves can, but when you use a crossover circuit, you blend them so that you can have accentuation in the midbass region instead of subbass where the subwoofer is made to play.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

the reason it has most output at 30Hz, is because, as the enclosure is, with a single woofer, its acting like a transmission line...
once the other woofers are in the enclosure, it wont be loudest at this point.

I give up, you clearly have no idea...

I have no idea why you think that I'm the one looking at this from a car audio point of view, seeing as clearly you're the one who is looking at it this way!!!

"People tune subwoofer enclosures in the 40hz area because it's next to impossible for main speakers to pick up those notes, but a subwoofer can easily cover them"

clearly, this only applies in car audio, seeing as alot of home audio setups have no subwoofer, and only have fronts, which happily play down into the 40 or 30Hz region.

you have no idea, so, shut up, and piss off.

why are you talking about cabin gain? how has anything I've said have anything to do with that? I'm saying that my front speakers will be used down to 50Hz, and the sub will take over below that... how is this making ANY reference to cabin gain? lol

I dunno, some people must just be born wankers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Why do you have such selective reading? Everything you've come back with has nothing to do with why you shouldn't tune a home speaker so low. YOU asked me why people tune subwoofers at 40hz, and I told you. Why am I talking about cabin gain? I said that, again, because it's startlingly apparent when a home speaker is struggling with notes that cannot be amplified by the room, whereas in CAR AUDIO, you get a natural boost in output. I fail to see how you cannot follow what I'm saying. Better yet, go over to http://www.diyaudio.com. Head to the loudspeaker section, and click on the project pictures. Find me ONE project with the mains tuned to

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

oh, and, my old front tower speakers... tuned to 30Hz... ofcourse, they wont play to 30Hz will they, cos they're front speakers? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif that makes no sense whatsoever... lol

Seriously, we're discussing in English, can you read it? This isn't that difficult, I've outlined it around 5x now, but you keep bringing up the same issue which I've debunked everytime. I'll leave you to your own devices until there's a review.

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

umm... PV Audio.... you have no idea, do you...

you come back with these replies, trying to make yourself look good, and yet, they dont explain anything, and are just an attempt at making yourself look better...

anyway, do what you like... lol

if you're seriously suggesting to tune your HOME AUDIO subwoofer, to 40Hz, they you are a COMPLETE and UTTER MORON!!! as would everyone on DIYAudio agree with!!!

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

ok, my mate (who is a member of DIYaudio, and actually knows about home audio, unlike yourself) would like to know, if you're tuning your subwoofer to 40Hz, what is going to play all the sub 40Hz content? like, the 30Hz in a lot of music, and the 17Hz in pipe organ music?

clearly, you have NO idea. lol

edit: I just realised, I'm arguing with a child.

that would explain the know it all attitude, when clearly, you dont know much at all.

I would strongly suggest you go and have a read of DIYaudio yourself, especially before you go around suggesting people tune their home audio subs to 40Hz again... lol

 

[kicker06 10+ year member]

Good christ you don't know what you're talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-bass

Your subwoofer does not need to pick up that low at all. It will play easily up to around 100hz where it's popular to port speakers at. You should learn what you're talking about before trying to act like you know something.

You can't use Wikipedia for anything..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-bass

lol who did this? ^^

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

umm... PV Audio.... you have no idea, do you...
you come back with these replies, trying to make yourself look good, and yet, they dont explain anything, and are just an attempt at making yourself look better...

anyway, do what you like... lol

if you're seriously suggesting to tune your HOME AUDIO subwoofer, to 40Hz, they you are a COMPLETE and UTTER MORON!!! as would everyone on DIYAudio agree with!!!

Quote me where I said I to tune a home audio subwoofer to 40hz. I never did, never will, and never implied it.