Why do some amps cost so much more?

[BnGRacing 10+ year member]

I think my point was lost in our (my) arguing at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. You're talking Mac and I'm talking Xplod when 99.9% of people fall somewhere in the middle. My point was that that 99.9% probably can't justify spending an extra $1k on an amp to achieve their level of acceptable SQ. Their level. Not yours.

I'd never buy a $1000+ new amplifier. No way. I've actually never spent more than $1000 on any system I've owned, in total, as I'm kinda cheap. Vendor accommodations helped quite a bit though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

My major point is that a 1000w does not automatically mean it will sound better than a 500w amp. There's more to amps than just wattage as most, and I'm talking 99% of users, introduce clipping and use the on-board processing. It's why RC's challenge is a bit of a farce and why you should not shop by specs & price. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will be a better judge than one's own ear.

When used as intended, amps do sound different. But this doesn't mean you have to go buy a $1200 amp in order to get the best sound; let some other idiot do that and buy it 2nd hand! You mentioned you own Linear Power & ADS amps; aren't you curious to why those things are still functioning at 100% while the big cheap surfboard amps of the same era are resting peacefully in a landfill? Those amps were quite pricey in their day but they sounded great then and they sound great now. If you're looking for a modern amplifier that'll have the same reliability, SQ, and build quality - it's not going to be made in a ChiCom sweatshop and isn't going to cost a couple pennies per watt.

However, a trip over to eBay or a classifieds forum will show you a treasure trove of amps that used to cost $1000+ that you can pick up for

Being cheap & having a great sounding system isn't that difficult...just need a little patience.

And I'm not convinced an unclipped watt is a watt. This goes back to when Fosgate 1st introduced their BD1000 12 years ago or so and I A-B tested it against older Class AB Fosgate amps and the difference was immense. I also remember those little Xtant mono amps and the first Alpine PDX amps...yuck. Maybe there was something else going on inside those amps but they sure didn't sound good.

 

[seedubs1 10+ year member]

Bottom line, the extra money is for:

1. Durability

2. Processing

3. User friendliness

 

[06goat 10+ year member]

*sigh* You win. I'm illiterate. You know more than I and your ear is infinitely more fine tuned than my inadequate, inexperienced, ghetto one.
But I think you are misconstruing my proponence of cheaper amplifiers as "sour grapes." Currrently on the shelf in my garage is a rather formidable collection of Linear Power, old school Zapco, Audison, and even McIntosh. I have love for the old school so those include PPI, Phoenix Gold, and an A/D/S power plate that I'm rather fond of.

Drivers that I've owned and auditoned in the last few months would include Focal, Hertz, Rainbow (current), Boston and the almighty HAT. Not including the budget, non-snobby stuff like Cadence, American Bass and some Sundown pro audio. I've listened to the forum b0ner stuff like the Peerles and Vifa, Seas, and the lesser known Silver Flutes.

My apologies for manufacturing fancy specs and official sounding terms and putting words into your mouth. I'm no RC fanboi [sic] other than the Grand National.

I think my point was lost in our (my) arguing at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. You're talking Mac and I'm talking Xplod when 99.9% of people fall somewhere in the middle. My point was that that 99.9% probably can't justify spending an extra $1k on an amp to achieve their level of acceptable SQ. Their level. Not yours.

But I will continue to disagree with you on one point... an unclipped watt is an unclipped watt. I don't care if it's Audison or Boss. And your comments lend credence to the fact that it's the processing that muddies the waters there.

I think your comments just struck a chord with me because it's the same type of elitist comments I read all too often (whether you meant to or not). It just happens to be more prevalent when it comes to SQ where the snobbery really shines, but the bassheads do it too. It drives me absolutely flippin nuts when someone asks "What amp should I get with my $150?" and every single comment is, "You're a retard. You're never going to get a good amp for that. You need to save up $9,000 and buy (whatever amp I heard the last person (or Richard Clark) recommend)." Furthermore, and a bit off of the amp topic, I read people say all the time that install is 90% of SQ. YET, they still recommend or insist that the most expensive drivers they can think of be used.

I know you were just being defensive, but you did it too. You insinuated that nothing more than undesirable results can be had with anything other than high dollar gear. That's just not the case. I'd wager that if someone really talented really put forth the effort, they could take home plenty of SQ trophies with what we would all consider inferior gear. What did you call it? ChiCom? Anecdotally, it's not SQ (purely subjective), but I did it in the SPL realm at world finals last year just to prove that you don't need thousand dollar woofers to do good numbers.

Apparently I went about it the wrong way, but I never hear anyone stand up and say, "You know, you can get perfectly acceptable SQ/SPL/SQL with this budget piece or this amp that's a little less than that one," or whatever the case may be. All I ever see is people recommending what they want or somthing that the OP can't afford or scaring people into thinking their sysyem is going to sound like booty if they don't drop $10k.

I guess I'll consider myself lucky that I can't tell the difference between the cheap ol' JBL I'm listening to now and the trio of Linear Powers it replaced.

tl;dr

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i run xtant amps, pre-mitek. i've tried several dozen others. i prefer these amps because of their flexibility - there is so much i can do with them. they are a PITA to make adjustments to because of the cover and how i have them installed - but i'm ok with that. they do sound different than other amps i've tried.

while amplifiers are supposed to mimic the input, doing so means the amplifier must be ideal. any EE can tell you that input never equals output on any analog circuit. slew rate is just one metric that will change the output. as the amplifier heats up, the electrical parameters of the components change. amplifiers introduce noise. how much varies with topology. just the differences between Class A, Class AB, Class D, Class G, Class T, etc. distort the waveform. i don't understand why this is even debated.

when we were auditioning the Hertz MLK-165 sets we tried 4 different amplifiers that were able to be connected. My recording engineer buddy could hear a difference between the Audison LRx and the Alpine PDX (even when he didn't know which one was operating). He also heard a few nuances in his demo recordings that he hadn't heard before (even on his own monitors). There are several reasons why this was, i'm sure the shop didn't spend time making sure each amp was set up equally. It's why he spend the money on them. We asked for the demo, not the staff (who i've known for over a decade). My ear isn't trained for critical listening like his. But he analyzes how the recording was mastered, he can tell what filters they used on each instrument during the mastering process. it's fun to watch him dissect music.

i think most amplifiers on the market are just fine and the general user won't know a difference between them because they just don't care. I've met more people think that clipping = loud and are fine with that than people that can recognize distortion and turn it down. i find it hard to believe anyone could hear the difference in subwoofer amplifiers - with the exception of improved damping factor in an install where the cones are visible from the seated position.

amplifier construction differences are important to me. PCB layout, connector quality/type, power supply design, how they deal with noise, and amplifier topology are important to me. using good op amps instead of cheap op amps in the signal path. thermal management. setting access/location, OEM integration, and even amplifier size play a role when selecting which amp is right for you.

i do agree that speakers introduce more coloration than amplifiers ever could.

And the differences in recordings is so vast, i'm not sure sonic amplifier differences really matter. Can some people tell the difference between amps with some recordings and some speaker setups? sure, i've seen it done on several occasions. will it always be obvious? no.

Have a conversation with the VP of Balanced Audio Technology (runs a shop in Champaign, IL) and he'll be glad to do side-by-side demos with various amplifiers, cables, etc. But with $80k speakers in a proper room, things are different than a $200 car audio speaker in a metal door.