Why do some amps cost so much more?

[BnGRacing 10+ year member]

Oh lord. You're one of those guys. "but... the tonality has so much depth at 2.78492%THD compared to 2.78493." Give me break and get over yourself with your flippin' 3rd order harmonics. Your ears are just like anyone else's.
And the fact that you're using the crossovers on your amp tells me you are full of ****.

You are illiterate.

I, in no way, mentioned THD nor anything you're referring to. You're putting words, albeit in script form, into my mouth.

The fact I'm using the amplifier's crossovers, if anything, should make you ask 'why's that?' instead of writing me off. I have enough experience with active capable head units and outboard processors to know that most, if not all, kinda sound bad until you spend 4 digits. The DSP in shall we say "affordable" HU's is terrible. This isn't even getting into gritty sounding DAC's or time alignment that induces phasing issues. Ya...I've been there. Furthermore, I am not aware of any digital processor that's reliable, noise-free, and somewhat plug-n-play. Anything short of a car PC is a compromise as all the processors on the market have their own issues.

Likewise, the crossover networks supplied with most amplifiers are horrible. They bleed and often induce some nasty distortion into the signal. Perhaps this makes me a freak but I happen to regularly clean my ears and I can hear it. One of the worst offenders in this realm is Alpine. There's no way their amps make anywhere near their rated power with the crossover network clicked on. Turn it off and viola, you can turn your gain up w/o clipping. The waveform in an o-scope will look like broken glass with the crossover turned on.

But hey, a watt is a watt b/c Richard Clark said so.

In my experience nothing has pleased my ears more than analog crossovers, EQs, and good ol' fashioned speaker placement. It's not convenient or easy but it's the best way I've found to go about having the most pleasing systems to the ear.

While this may be upsetting to you, deal with it. You cannot just go internet shopping and find the right combination of 'specs' and have a good system. The same goes with amps. So don't be so hearbroken your ChiCom amps are sub-par despite the numbers printed on the box. For

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

You haven't said much of anything useful or accurate in your posts. Just stop. E-thugs are not cool to adults.
Everyone's ears are different and our hearing response is different. Critical listening isn't a gift people are born with, it is a learned skill that requires practice. Spend time auditioning sound systems with recording engineers and you'll understand.

RC's challenge is a trick. It is not proof that every amp ever made is identical in how it sounds at any operating level.

can u elaborate? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

 

[MANTI5 10+ year member]

Richard Clark isn't the only one that's done double blind tests, many have with the same results. Placebo is a strong drug.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

can u elaborate? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

He removes everything from the equation. He dumbs down the good amps so they are on par with the junk by using an external crossover/EQ rather than using the amps EQ or a good headunits EQ.

Richard Clark isn't the only one that's done double blind tests, many have with the same results. Placebo is a strong drug.

If he did the test how someone in the real world used their gear he would have lost more than $10,000.

 

[MANTI5 10+ year member]

No manufacturer that has submitted their product to a double blind test has used the results in their marketing campaign. Reason? Also, check these out: Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

 

[MANTI5 10+ year member]

Nice little quote from another test: "...in a double blind test of amps, there was more of a sonic difference when the subjects moved their heads 30 degrees left or right than any perceived sonic differences in amplifiers."

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

No manufacturer that has submitted their product to a double blind test has used the results in their marketing campaign. Reason? Also, check these out: Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

Both articles are irrelevant. First one doesnt state the methods they used and home audio has nothing to do with a car.

 

[MANTI5 10+ year member]

LOL, whatever. Science says one thing, you another.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

LOL, whatever. Science says one thing, you another.

Science provides a clear hypothesis and defines testing methods. Neither of which your first link did. Secondly you can claim science all you want, but no science in the world would agree that HT = CA.

 

[Morals 10+ year member]

This is the biggest load of horse crap I have heard in a while.
The RC challenge doesn't dumb down good ones to sound bad. It sets up "bad" ones to sound good, moron. They way you're supposed to. You're not supposed to introduce clipping and distortion. And anyone that interested in SQ isn't going to be using the processing on the amp.

The fact that you even quoted terms like "warm," "airy" or "tube like" tells me that you are, in fact, an audio snob that insists his 1993 $1,200 amp sounds better than my 2012 $100 one when the fact is, you couldn't tell the difference between a Mac and an Xplod if someone offered you $10k if you could. Oh, wait... someone has offered that money. And no one can.

Your drivers introduce more distortion than any other piece of the system. Your warmth and even ordered harmonics and retarded THD% specs are jacked by the time they get to your ears, but I will agree that cheap amps just don't last very long; because the chuckleheads that buy cheap amps don't know WTF they're doing.

And the person who said a watt isn't always a watt. You fail.

So what your saying is everyone here should be buying all there amps at walmart?

 

[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

I generally will pay more money for a quality constructed amplifier, but that's just how I roll. Every now and again I managed to get lucky with budget priced amplifiers, like my Clarion DPX1851.

Unfortunately for me, the norm for buying cheap usually equated to buying twice and it has happened more times than I care to count. I had much better luck with offerings from Arc Audio, JL Audio, Lunar, Zapco, and a few other Zeff designed amplifiers than I did with anything from the first generation Alpine PDX, Maxxsonics Hifonics, DEI Orion, or the older Epsilon Soundstream. I know the new Alpine PDX amplifiers sound way better than the old while Maxxsonics, DEI, and Epsilon alleged to improve quality since I last dealt with them in 2006 or 2007. Oddly enough, being burned once makes me not want to try anything else from a manufacturer.

 

[BT96SS 10+ year member]

I have been selling installing audio for over 20 years. In the real world I can definitly hear the difference. I will always prefer the sound of a class ab over class d. If you go for spl is doesnt really matter but for my tastes I like the control and higher dampening factor of an ab class. The bass is tighter. Something has been lost in the last few years. I have ab tested a full range class d vs an ab on the display board and I could hear a difference. The class ab had a broader freq response thank the d. I could really hear the difference in the upper frequencies. The d highs freqencies roll off faster. I doubt you would hear this with ipod music but with cd and dvd music it was there. The amps in question were the same power and around the same price point. I am not biased and switch my equipment quite often. I have used most affordable mainstream brands such as jl, xtant, re, treo ppi, rockford, zapco, kicker, etc. I have tried everything from a single dd 1508 to a solo x. There are big differences in subwoofer sounds but we are talking amps. Im sure I will get flamed by some but for amps 1k watts and under its ab for me. I stumbled on a 1990's Lanzer optidrive 500 the other day and installed it and the sound of old school class ab it just as good as I remember.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

LMAO at the RC fanbois. Don't forget he partnered marketing stiffening capacitors.

Maybe the fanbois think we should just buy Boss Audio and 1F caps and we can win MECA competitions.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

as if i would sell it for that much ha ha ha ha. youmadbro cause i haz an u no haz

Your gunna be so pissed if I get that pair lol

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

You are illiterate.
While this may be upsetting to you, deal with it. You cannot just go internet shopping and find the right combination of 'specs' and have a good system. The same goes with amps. So don't be so hearbroken your ChiCom amps are sub-par despite the numbers printed on the box. For

*sigh* You win. I'm illiterate. You know more than I and your ear is infinitely more fine tuned than my inadequate, inexperienced, ghetto one.

But I think you are misconstruing my proponence of cheaper amplifiers as "sour grapes." Currrently on the shelf in my garage is a rather formidable collection of Linear Power, old school Zapco, Audison, and even McIntosh. I have love for the old school so those include PPI, Phoenix Gold, and an A/D/S power plate that I'm rather fond of.

Drivers that I've owned and auditoned in the last few months would include Focal, Hertz, Rainbow (current), Boston and the almighty HAT. Not including the budget, non-snobby stuff like Cadence, American Bass and some Sundown pro audio. I've listened to the forum b0ner stuff like the Peerles and Vifa, Seas, and the lesser known Silver Flutes.

My apologies for manufacturing fancy specs and official sounding terms and putting words into your mouth. I'm no RC fanboi [sic] other than the Grand National.

I think my point was lost in our (my) arguing at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. You're talking Mac and I'm talking Xplod when 99.9% of people fall somewhere in the middle. My point was that that 99.9% probably can't justify spending an extra $1k on an amp to achieve their level of acceptable SQ. Their level. Not yours.

But I will continue to disagree with you on one point... an unclipped watt is an unclipped watt. I don't care if it's Audison or Boss. And your comments lend credence to the fact that it's the processing that muddies the waters there.

I think your comments just struck a chord with me because it's the same type of elitist comments I read all too often (whether you meant to or not). It just happens to be more prevalent when it comes to SQ where the snobbery really shines, but the bassheads do it too. It drives me absolutely flippin nuts when someone asks "What amp should I get with my $150?" and every single comment is, "You're a retard. You're never going to get a good amp for that. You need to save up $9,000 and buy (whatever amp I heard the last person (or Richard Clark) recommend)." Furthermore, and a bit off of the amp topic, I read people say all the time that install is 90% of SQ. YET, they still recommend or insist that the most expensive drivers they can think of be used.

I know you were just being defensive, but you did it too. You insinuated that nothing more than undesirable results can be had with anything other than high dollar gear. That's just not the case. I'd wager that if someone really talented really put forth the effort, they could take home plenty of SQ trophies with what we would all consider inferior gear. What did you call it? ChiCom? Anecdotally, it's not SQ (purely subjective), but I did it in the SPL realm at world finals last year just to prove that you don't need thousand dollar woofers to do good numbers.

Apparently I went about it the wrong way, but I never hear anyone stand up and say, "You know, you can get perfectly acceptable SQ/SPL/SQL with this budget piece or this amp that's a little less than that one," or whatever the case may be. All I ever see is people recommending what they want or somthing that the OP can't afford or scaring people into thinking their sysyem is going to sound like booty if they don't drop $10k.

I guess I'll consider myself lucky that I can't tell the difference between the cheap ol' JBL I'm listening to now and the trio of Linear Powers it replaced.