Tweeter hiss noise, is this normal?

[Meruem]

Lowend rcas can cause this, but most of the time its the speaker wire used during install.
If the speaker wire is lowend and is near the door window motor or by power wires you will hear a faint hiss noise especially from tweeters.

If it was the rca then it would get louder by engine going faster or when gains are high enough to produce an amplified sound.

If its the same with the gain all the way down 99% time its the speaker wires.

I asked the shop about the speaker wires. They said the wire is 16 gauge (if i remember correctly). They said a lower gauge wire would not make any difference. They said it would be the last thing to look at. They said the speaker wires were routed correctly in the doors. I'd have to take my door panels off to confirm but I have not done that

They said that all tweeters have the hissing noise. I agree with this to a certain extent. All my home audio tweeters make a hissing noise, but I can only hear it when I put my ear about 6 to 10 inches away from the tweeter. In my car drivers seat I'd say I'm about ~24 inches away from the tweeter and I can hear it at the same loudness as if I were ~6 inches away from my home audio tweeters. Also if I cover up the drivers side tweeter with my hand, I can even hear the hiss from the front passenger tweeter which is like ~48inches away from my ears. So it basically sounds like I have my head next to the speakers at all times when music isnt playing and the head unit is on.

Is this the nature of after market high end car audio? My stock tweeters did not produce the hissing noise so loud.

They said the next thing to try would be a better amplifier with better total harmonic distortion than the zapco

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Higher strand count has nothing to do with increasing power delivery. This myth is about the Skin Effect, which has 0 bearing on performance with the low frequencies of audio signals. Routing speaker wires near window motors would at worst only effect the sound while the motor is in operation. The high voltage of speaker signals makes it very unlikely that speaker wires will pick up noise anyway. It is much more likely to occur with poorly constructed RCAs routed next to an electric motor or other strong RF source.

Zapco ST series amplifiers are mid-grade at best. It's not a shining example of Zapco quality like they used to be known for.

 

[C1500martin 10+ year member]

You have copper and silver plated aluminum and bronze.
When it comes to copper wire it can be copper with aluminum (cca) or pure copper (ofc).

Two different brands can offer 12g wire with pure copper, but one can be 125 strands and the other 180 strands.

The more strands on an OFC wire the more power can travel and most of the time is more resistant to outside noise.

what if the one with 125 strands has thicker strands than the one with 180 strands? strand count doesnt matter as this is often the case. as long as the wire measures or surpasses to the AWG standards its good wire.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

what if the one with 125 strands has thicker strands than the one with 180 strands? strand count doesnt matter as this is often the case. as long as the wire measures or surpasses to the AWG standards its good wire.

True, but awg standard requires each strand of wire to be a certain thickness.

 

[Meruem]

Interesting, thank you. On the receipt it says "9wire 4 spkr wires & remote in" x5. I have no idea what that means. Does that sound like decent enough speaker wire to you? I dont know what 9wire means

I found out what 9wire is. I asked the installer shop. It's some wire (or perhaps a set of wires, "Multi-Conductor" wire maybe) that allows them to use the existing stock speaker wire runs in my car for my stock JBL's that I had. So they run this 9wire stuff up to my stock 5 channel JBL amp (which blew out) and splice in to my existing speaker wire runs which ran to my old speakers i replaced with the hertz.

I feel kind of cheated because the installer did not ask me if I wanted to *pay* them to run new cable. The answer would have been a definite YES. because I am a purist when it comes to audio and I don't want cheap crap stock speaker wire with my brand new expensive speakers. I am baffled that they would even consider using the existing wire and creating a splice point in the route. The more I learn about car audio the more pissed I get at the decisions they made without even asking me

 

[Meruem]

Do you guys see anything wrong with the following: Second Service - Imgur . This is after my second service where I upgraded my RCA cables to Mephis RCA's (the best the installer shop offered). 17ETP17 - Memphis Car Audio & 17ETP214 - Memphis Car Audio

As a car audio novice, the only thing I personally see 'wrong' with the setup, is that the power cable from the car battery is so close to everything. I dont know if this could potentially be causing the tweeter hiss. the installer did not have an answer for me when I asked this question other than 'we can move the power cable and charge you the labor to see if it solves the problem'

My previous RCA install looked like this: First Service - Imgur

They moved the amp away from the crossovers in the second service I got (when they installed the new RCA's) because they said it could be a possible cause of the hissing noise and engine RPM whine noise I was experiencing.

So how did it turn out after the second service?: I have pretty much the same level of hiss as I had before except I have a new issue now. I have a very very very obvious RPM whine now. Previously I had rpm whine but only when the head unit was on. now I have it when the head unit is off! And when the head unit is on, the RPM whine is even worse. The installer shop is denying all responsibility for this RPM whine issue, but it never existed before they touched my car. I feel like im in a rock in a hard place because I know cars and electronics are complex, so I have trouble faulting them. And then at the same time I don't want to accept the newly introduced very annoying issues my car now has

 

[DARKHART 10+ year member]

YES. because I am a purist when it comes to audio and I don't want cheap crap stock speaker wire with my brand new expensive speakers. I am baffled that they would even consider using the existing wire and creating a splice point in the route. The more I learn about car audio the more pissed I get at the decisions they made without even asking me

This is a huge fallacy that stock factory wiring is crap. I would say that for 85-90% of most installs using aftermarket amps, the factory speaker wiring is just fine, especially in newer or European vehicles. Hell in my 16yr old BMW all the factory wiring are twisted pair and we're seeing this more and more on newer vehicles. As far as the 9wire is concerned, it's simply a 9 conductor cable with the industry standard color coded pairs that make for an easier and neater installation. When using amps you can run a single length of 9wire to the location where all the factory speaker wiring converges (ie factory amp) and tie in there which saves time for the installer and cost to the customer. It's very easy to say "hey they should have asked me if I wanted to run new wiring to each speaker because I'm a purest" but all to often customers limit themselves with price. Just as easy as it would have been for the salesperson offer that as an option, you could have said "hey I'm picky about my sound and I want new wiring run throughout the vehicle." So there is no reason to be pissed and the statements made earlier about the noise being picked up by the speaker wire, well Trumpet gave the best response to that. Truthfully if you weren't building a major sq style of install most wouldn't even offer or suggest running new wiring to the speakers because it's not really needed unless you are using a majorly powerful amp which in turn would require speakers designed to handle the power.

Now as to the other part of this equation, the hissing, my first thought as was stated earlier was gains are too high but as that wasn't the case I'm thinking as Trumpet again stated it could be in the amp itself. Brand new straight out the package equipment can have issues that slipped past QC, also what type of headunit are you running. I don't like the fact that the shop told you all tweeters have a hiss to them...that's just utter crap and they know it, they should be able to track down the source of the hiss by starting at the amp first. With the system off remove the rca's from the amp and turn on, if the hiss is still there then you have your culprit if not the source is further up the chain and they should backtrack till they find it. We build systems everyday with all the wiring bundled together with zero noise....

 

[DARKHART 10+ year member]

Meruem I just read also that you have engine whine also with the headunit off???? That tells me that the amp is staying on thus it's getting it's remote turn on signal from a source other than the headunit. What type of vehicle do you have and is it the factory radio or aftermarket????

edit: just reread the post and saw what headunit.....that Sony is one bad*ss deck for the price and is my most popular seller and it has strong rca outputs so I have to say they definitely did something wrong. That amp shouldn't even be on if the deck isn't.

 

[Meruem]

This is a huge fallacy that stock factory wiring is crap. I would say that for 85-90% of most installs using aftermarket amps, the factory speaker wiring is just fine, especially in newer or European vehicles. Hell in my 16yr old BMW all the factory wiring are twisted pair and we're seeing this more and more on newer vehicles. As far as the 9wire is concerned, it's simply a 9 conductor cable with the industry standard color coded pairs that make for an easier and neater installation. When using amps you can run a single length of 9wire to the location where all the factory speaker wiring converges (ie factory amp) and tie in there which saves time for the installer and cost to the customer. It's very easy to say "hey they should have asked me if I wanted to run new wiring to each speaker because I'm a purest" but all to often customers limit themselves with price. Just as easy as it would have been for the salesperson offer that as an option, you could have said "hey I'm picky about my sound and I want new wiring run throughout the vehicle." So there is no reason to be pissed and the statements made earlier about the noise being picked up by the speaker wire, well Trumpet gave the best response to that. Truthfully if you weren't building a major sq style of install most wouldn't even offer or suggest running new wiring to the speakers because it's not really needed unless you are using a majorly powerful amp which in turn would require speakers designed to handle the power.Now as to the other part of this equation, the hissing, my first thought as was stated earlier was gains are too high but as that wasn't the case I'm thinking as Trumpet again stated it could be in the amp itself. Brand new straight out the package equipment can have issues that slipped past QC, also what type of headunit are you running. I don't like the fact that the shop told you all tweeters have a hiss to them...that's just utter crap and they know it, they should be able to track down the source of the hiss by starting at the amp first. With the system off remove the rca's from the amp and turn on, if the hiss is still there then you have your culprit if not the source is further up the chain and they should backtrack till they find it. We build systems everyday with all the wiring bundled together with zero noise....

Thats good to know that factory speaker wire isnt pure crap. Though, it still could theoretically be crap because I have no objective data to confirm one way or the other; but it is reassuring to know that in general, factory wire is quality enough. I have a 2008 RAV4.

My head unit is this: Sony MEX-GS610BT CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

I'm going to be purchasing a new amplifier from the installer soon to attempt to address the issue. I'll post the results from the new amp when i get it installed. I probably wont have it installed for a week or so because they have to order it

 

[Meruem]

Meruem I just read also that you have engine whine also with the headunit off???? That tells me that the amp is staying on thus it's getting it's remote turn on signal from a source other than the headunit. What type of vehicle do you have and is it the factory radio or aftermarket????
edit: just reread the post and saw what headunit.....that Sony is one bad*ss deck for the price and is my most popular seller and it has strong rca outputs so I have to say they definitely did something wrong. That amp shouldn't even be on if the deck isn't.

I confirmed when i turn my head unit off, the amp also turns off. it's working correctly. I just am noticing this engine whine I never had before when my engine RPM's rise and fall. The whine noise there when the head unit and amp are off. When the head unit/amp are on, the whine noise about 50% more noisy

 

[DARKHART 10+ year member]

Thats good to know that factory speaker wire isnt pure crap. Though, it still could theoretically be crap because I have no objective data to confirm one way or the other; but it is reassuring to know that in general, factor wire is quality enough. I have a 2008 RAV4.
My head unit is this: Sony MEX-GS610BT CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

I'm going to be purchasing a new amplifier from the installer soon to attempt to address the issue. I'll post the results from the new amp when i get it installed. I probably wont have it installed for a week or so because they have to order it

Before you spend another dime with them they need to address the noise issues, it should be a simple matter for them to swap out your current amp with another to see if the hiss is still there.

You can't speak in terms of theoretical because heck theoretically it could be one of a million things but realistically and having to deal with it daily, there is nothing wrong with running that 60w x4 amp on factory wiring and that's just the simple of it. I've been in and out of this industry a little over 28yrs now as well as home audio and honestly there is sooooo much pseudo science going on in home audio it's laughable but to each his own I always say. I always trying to inform my clients to the best of my ability but at the end of the day if that's what they want, I will still sale a client whatever they want....

 

[DARKHART 10+ year member]

I confirmed when i turn my head unit off, the amp also turns off. it's working correctly. I just am noticing this engine whine I never had before when my engine RPM's rise and fall. The whine noise there when the head unit and amp are off. When the head unit/amp are on, the whine noise about 50% more noisy

That sounds like "radiated" noise of some sort "after" the amp. Are you certain that it's coming from the speakers???? I ask this because engine whine is generally picked up along the rca's and rarely through speaker wiring though not impossible. Depending on where and how the 9wire was run I guess it could be acting as an antenna of sorts and inducing noise directly to the speakers but it's unlikely. Here's an easy way to tell, simply unhook the speaker wiring at the passive crossovers with everything still off and see if the whine is still there.

 

[Meruem]

Before you spend another dime with them they need to address the noise issues, it should be a simple matter for them to swap out your current amp with another to see if the hiss is still there. You can't speak in terms of theoretical because heck theoretically it could be one of a million things but realistically and having to deal with it daily, there is nothing wrong with running that 60w x4 amp on factory wiring and that's just the simple of it. I've been in and out of this industry a little over 28yrs now as well as home audio and honestly there is sooooo much pseudo science going on in home audio it's laughable but to each his own I always say. I always trying to inform my clients to the best of my ability but at the end of the day if that's what they want, I will still sale a client whatever they want....

I tried today, for about 1 hour to convince the general manger of the store/installation shop that the hiss was not acceptable. First he claimed he could not hear it and I pushed him on the issue. Then he claimed that it was within the level of acceptability for an after market stereo installation. I don't understand how someone can "not hear" something but then all of the sudden be able to assess the sound and deem it within the range of acceptability. I've had 4 out of 4 non-biased people sit in my car and they think the hiss is unacceptable. I've been in numerous cars in my life and never heard tweeters hiss so bad; hell I've never heard the tweeters hiss AT ALL in any vehicle i've been in. I mean, you can hear the hiss in my current system at 3 feet away easily

I also believe I should not have to spend more money to correct the issue. But the best I could do was to get the general manager to allow me to replace my zapco with an audison sr4 amp, but it will cost me $100. Sad thing is I dont even know if this will fix the issue; but I'm hopeful

 

[Meruem]

That sounds like "radiated" noise of some sort "after" the amp. Are you certain that it's coming from the speakers???? I ask this because engine whine is generally picked up along the rca's and rarely through speaker wiring though not impossible. Depending on where and how the 9wire was run I guess it could be acting as an antenna of sorts and inducing noise directly to the speakers but it's unlikely. Here's an easy way to tell, simply unhook the speaker wiring at the passive crossovers with everything still off and see if the whine is still there.

No it's not coming from the speakers. I cant figure out where it's coming from actually. It sounds like it's coming from the engine compartment somewhere. Example: with the head unit on/amp on the whine is 100%. With the head unit/amp off, the whine is about 70-80% in terms of loudness. The sounds not coming from the speakers so im baffled

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

if you hear noise with the head unit off, that doesn't always mean the amp is off.

pull the fuse at the battery for the amp. does the noise persist?

if so, it's not related to your sound system.

i've seen/heard amplifiers that had a whine or a hiss due to internal radiated noise. it's not normal, but it can happen and is usually tied to the switching power supply. hell, i've got a rockford amp on my test bench right now that has a very high frequency whine. you'd never know in the trunk but under a seat it would drive you nuts.