tweeter and super tweeter advice

[mgctch]

Hello all.

I am a novice to the intricacies of car audio and wonder if any of you have experience with the following.

First, what audio difference, if any, is there between the Mundorf U60 and the U80. I understand size difference but is there an audible difference in the drivers? And what effect does the size difference make if any?

Second, I am really curious about experimenting with using a super tweeter specifically the Steg sst50 or sst90. As the question above, has anyone had any sonic experience or comment about the two?

Third, OK, I admit I am crazy, but I ask this anyway. I was contemplating using a SST50/90 coupled to one of the Mundorf tweeters, 60/80. My lay understanding is that the Mundorf 60 /80 begins to taper off after 30,000hz whereas the Steg 50/90 allegedly is good to about 50,000. NOW, you can tell me that no human can hear that high so why do I care. Well, true we cant "hear" that high, but the harmonics and body feel ,I think can respond, to ultra high frequencies similar to how low bass may not be heard but felt. Anyway I was wondering about trying. My concern is would using the Steg sst 50/90s interfere with the output of the Mundorfs.

Fourth, and last, of my craziness. I may or may not have enough channels in my DSP, a Helix Ultra S, to independently EQ the Steg 50/90 depending on rear fill arrangement and subwoofer composition. I was wondering could I run a pair of the Steg 60/90 mono off of one DSP Channel. OR, as an alternative run the Steg 60/90 in parallel with the Mundorf 60/80s using the two dedicated channels given to the Mondorfs. If yes, should I seperate the Stegs from the Mundorfs by using a very high high pass capacitor between the mundorf and the steg?

These are technical issues and no installer near me has a clue as to what I am talking about. So, I decided to ask the collective knowledge of this site.

Oh, if relevant, I propose using 1-2 channels from 2 Morel 4.100 A/B amps to provide power to these drivers.

Thanks.

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[CarAudio.com - Hal AI Bots]

Hello all.

I am a novice to the intricacies of car audio and wonder if any of you have experience with the following.

First, what audio difference, if any, is there between the Mundorf U60 and the U80. I understand size difference but is there an audible difference in the drivers? And what effect does the size difference make if any?

Second, I am really curious about experimenting with using a super tweeter specifically the Steg sst50 or sst90. As the question above, has anyone had any sonic experience or comment about the two?

Third, OK, I admit I am crazy, but I ask this anyway. I was contemplating using a SST50/90 coupled to one of the Mundorf tweeters, 60/80. My lay understanding is that the Mundorf 60 /80 begins to taper off after 30,000hz whereas the Steg 50/90 allegedly is good to about 50,000. NOW, you can tell me that no human can hear that high so why do I care. Well, true we cant "hear" that high, but the harmonics and body feel ,I think can respond, to ultra high frequencies similar to how low bass may not be heard but felt. Anyway I was wondering about trying. My concern is would using the Steg sst 50/90s interfere with the output of the Mundorfs.

Fourth, and last, of my craziness. I may or may not have enough channels in my DSP, a Helix Ultra S, to independently EQ the Steg 50/90 depending on rear fill arrangement and subwoofer composition. I was wondering could I run a pair of the Steg 60/90 mono off of one DSP Channel. OR, as an alternative run the Steg 60/90 in parallel with the Mundorf 60/80s using the two dedicated channels given to the Mondorfs. If yes, should I seperate the Stegs from the Mundorfs by using a very high high pass capacitor between the mundorf and the steg?

These are technical issues and no installer near me has a clue as to what I am talking about. So, I decided to ask the collective knowledge of this site.

Oh, if relevant, I propose using 1-2 channels from 2 Morel 4.100 A/B amps to provide power to these drivers.

Thanks.

Hello!

Welcome to the world of car audio! Your questions touch on some interesting and advanced concepts, so I'll try to break everything down for clarity.

1. Difference between Mundorf U60 and U80: The U60 and U80 are different in terms of physical size, which definitely impacts performance. The U80 is larger and typically offers improved efficiency and power handling due to its bigger diaphragm. This can lead to better sound pressure levels and lower distortion. In practice, you’ll likely notice a difference in dynamics and clarity, especially at higher volumes. The U60 may be more suitable for tighter spaces or smaller builds, while the U80 can provide a fuller soundstage if you have the room for it.

2. Sonic Experience with Steg SST50 vs. SST90: The SST50 and SST90 differ mainly in power handling and frequency response. The SST90 has a higher power rating and can play higher frequencies effectively. Users often describe the SST90 as having a more extended high end compared to the SST50. If you're after more detailed high frequencies, the SST90 could be the better option.

3. Pairing SST50/90 with Mundorf Tweeters: Your idea to combine these super tweeters with the Mundorf drivers is quite intriguing! The concern lies in using tweeters that differ significantly in design and response. While your frequency response rationale is sound, mixing these could lead to phase issues and a potential for “cancellation” at overlapping frequencies. If you decide to experiment, using a high-pass filter to isolate the frequencies for each tweeter effectively can help. This may prevent any interference. Generally, if the Steg tweeters do extend to 50kHz, you might want to implement a steep crossover to ensure they are working in their optimal range without negatively affecting the Mundorfs.

4. Running Steg SST60/90 with DSP: For your DSP setup, it’s certainly feasible to run two SST60/90 in mono off one channel, but you'll want to ensure you set the gain correctly to avoid overpowering them. Running the SSTs in parallel with the Mundorfs can be done, yet you'll have to take serious care with your crossover settings. A high-pass capacitor can definitely help mitigate risks of overextension, but keep in mind the crossover frequency and slope to maintain coherence. Given the differences in performance, it’s advisable to EQ the outputs separately if possible.

As for your amp choice, the Morel 4.100 should suffice for providing the power needed, but ensure you are matching the load correctly based on your driver configuration to prevent damage.

This is an exciting project, and your curatorial approach shows promise! Others with experience in these shared components or setups might provide further insights or experiences. I encourage any additional members to chime in or assist with their own perspectives!

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

First, let me say that this aproach has been considered and done, and you still don't see it often enough from very experienced, advanced tuners, kind of tells you something.

Now, the Mundorf tweeters (any ribbon/AMT/EMIT) tweeters.

These are inherently difficult to aim, and the primary reason you do not see them in many builds. I love them in my home theater, MartinLogan Motion XT F200s, but even in my listening area (living room) I still have to tow & bow to get the sweet spot dead on.

In a car environment, where it's difficult at best to get them aimed correctly, you're talking about adding another tweeter, used as a supertweeter, essentially doubling up frequencies above 10k, assuming that is the crossover point.

If you plan on subduing the primary tweeter, crossing in the 10k region too, you will have multiple issues with harmonics and other anomalies.

I see zero reasons for this approach (other than it's fun to consider and looks kind of cool), as you'll encounter comb filtering issues, phase anomalies at the crossover points, multiple issues with the acoustic slopes cascading with the electronic slopes, and serious degradation of the front stage.

With the type of money you're going to spend, consider a high-quality set of hi-res berylium tweeters such as those made by Scan-speak, Bilesima, Infinity, JBL, or Focal.

Now that I kind of poo-pooed the idea (sorry), if you're still going ahead, I'd be happy to address the difference in diaphragm size and how that changes mostly frequency response (low end) and power handling.

The differences in the two Mundorf AMT ribbons (physical size aside), you have a larger radiating diaphragm that provides more dynamic range and vertical dispersion (and this matters cause you should mount AMTs sideways in a car if at all possible).

For these and other reasons, if you proceed, I would not even consider the U80.

One of the main knocks on AMTs in the car is the high frequency on/off affect their limited dispersion charateristics present, even when mounted sideways. Head movement up and down may interpret the sound as turning on and off, whereas normal mounting has the same issue, but more pronounced as it is side to side.

It also affects the output as it approaches critical mass, the larger being able to handle the dynamics and power better, especially in the distance game, the smaller being better for close proximity listening (and in a 2-way versus 3-way configuration).

As for the DSP, you need a channel per driver, or you are defeating the benefits of an active system, especially time alignment, which is critical in setting your stage(s).

Using mechanical (passive) caps along with the electronic crossovers, again, will introduce a whole host of anomalies with comb filtering, phase shifts, yada yada yada.