Tube amp (4 channel)

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

I'm looking for info on high end (Class A or Class A/B) tube amps. I know that old school PPI and a few U.S. amps are made with tubes, but who else? Who makes high quality tube amps? Also anyone selling one?

Thanks in advance,

Justin

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[flakko 5,000+ posts]

TRU has some

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

Ah Yes! I forgot about them. They are really pricey though. Maybe I'll see what kind of price I can find.

Thx for the reply!

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Planet audio has a tube amp.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Depends on what type of "tube" you are talking about.

US Amps and Butler make hybrid tube amps (tubes on input side ONLY, regular solid state outputs).

Tru and Milbert make true, full tube amps......but they cost more than most people's cars. They are also the only true, full tube amps for car audio that I'm aware of. Everything else is a hybrid tube with tubes only on the inputs.

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

I have read up some on the hybrid solution, but, to be honest I am not sure I understand the difference. I have used tube amps in home applications and understand the warm-up and hum. Is this like a best of both worlds situation? Or should I stick with solid state? I really want warm clean sound. I plan on having a little SPL but honestly I want true sound quality without breaking the bank. Tru stuff is really good (or so I have been told) but its really really expensive.

Thanks for the info,

Justin

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I have read up some on the hybrid solution, but, to be honest I am not sure I understand the difference. I have used tube amps in home applications and understand the warm-up and hum. Is this like a best of both worlds situation? Or should I stick with solid state? I really want warm clean sound. I plan on having a little SPL but honestly I want true sound quality without breaking the bank. Tru stuff is really good (or so I have been told) but its really really expensive.
Thanks for the info,

Justin

Tubing the inputs only basically defeats the purpose of using tubes in the first place. Having the outputs tubed is essentially where that "tube" sound comes from.

But, IMHO just go with a regular SS amp. A tube mainly excels over a SS amp when clipping, where the tube clips "softly" the SS amp creates a shit-ton of distortion that sounds horrible //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif Get an amp big enough as to avoid clipping, and in most instances you wouldn't be able to tell a whole hell of a lot of difference in a vehicle cruising down the highway at 70mph //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

But, that "warm" sound is nothing more than 2nd order distortion.......so the context of "warm" in the sense of tubes, and "clean" don't even really belong in the same sentence. That "warm" sound comes from having an unclean signal //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[loserpunk 10+ year member]

ss distortion = ewwwwhhww

tube distortion = mmmmhmmmmmm yummy

wierd how that works isn't it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

ss distortion = ewwwwhhwwtube distortion = mmmmhmmmmmm yummy

wierd how that works isn't it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Not really //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Most SS amps produce a lot of odd-order distorion and clip hard, which sounds poopy to our ear. Tubes create 2nd order distortion and clip more softly, which is more pleasing to our ear (hell, some people even prefer that sound over a "clean" signal).

 

[glennlewis 10+ year member]

The reason some tube amps have only tubes in the input stage is quite straightforward...Because we all listen to digital music reproduction the sine waves of CD's and MP'3 tend to be only as good as the sampling rate. Because digital music has square waves instead of smooth sine waves which is present in live music the experts will say the music sounds choppy. I think it could be said especially in the high end (tweeter realm) that with low sampling tweeter can sound harsh. Soooo...What tube amps with tubes in the input stage do is soften the harsh digital edge of the sampling rate and in effect transform the square waves into much softer gently rising and falling sine waves...Hope this makes clear....My 2 cents

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

So tubes only came about with the advent of digital media //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

Tubing the inputs only allows people to still feel as if they are getting that "warm" tube sound, without the expense and difficulty of designing/purchasing a true full tube amp for the automotive enviornment, regardless of what media is being played.

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

First off thanks for the information. I think I'm starting to see that in home use, a true tube amp would make sense. Although, in car use it really doesn't seem to offer the advantages I thought that it would.

What about SS for SQ? If I was looking for Class A or something close to that really high end sound where should I be looking? I know this could turn into a "what amp is the best question" and that is not my intention. Rather, I am looking to find a really good amp with 4 channels that reproduces sound very well. High output is not really my goal. Even as low as 25X4 would be ok. I would prefer at least 65X4.

Thanks again,

Justin

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

What about SS for SQ? If I was looking for Class A or something close to that really high end sound where should I be looking?

There are VERY, VERY few true class A amps in car audio. Some are mistakenly labeled as "class A", when they are nothing more than a high-bias class A/B or the like. Only true, full class A amplifier I know of for mobile audio use are the Monolithic amplifiers. Though, I'm not sure why you'd want something with a maximum efficiency of 25% when we have such a limited amount of a power supply in a vehicle. Though you wouldn't need to turn on your car's heater in the winter //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Just find a good, quality built amplifier. IMHO, you are putting too much emphasis on the aspects that aren't going to make a whole hell of a lot of difference. I know there are those who disagree with me, but you won't hear much if any difference in "sound quality" between any two good quality amplifier of the same power that don't have glaring difference in terms of frequency response and distortion. Find an amp within your price range that offers the power you want, has the features you desire, cosmetics you can live with and a warranty that satisfies you.

 

[Pl8er 5,000+ posts]

Hrm. I would have to disagree with the comment about two amps sounding the same. I have listened to home audio for a fair amount of time and have recently gotten into higher end home audio eq. Different amps for home audio have totally different sounds. The staging, color, just about everything. I will agree with you that I may be getting too wrapped up in the classes and what type of amp it is. I think I will look into what some top SQ people are using amp wise. I know that the installs they use are going to make a HUGE difference on what they sound like but I would like to get a general idea. I do appreciate your information and knowledge on this topic. I want to get a really nice SQ setup for my next ride. Then again I want it to have really decent accurate low end as well. Of course, I need to find a new car first //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Thanks again,

Justin

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Hrm. I would have to disagree with the comment about two amps sounding the same. I have listened to home audio for a fair amount of time and have recently gotten into higher end home audio eq. Different amps for home audio have totally different sounds. The staging, color, just about everything.

I would just caution you as to what to attribute those differences to //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Many of those "effects" can be added in to any amp with the addition of a simple equalizer.....or it was simply an issue of level matching/etc.

But, alas, that's not what this thread was intended to discuss......so I'll leave that alone now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif