T3/DD hybrid...:)

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Sorry op

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

That is true, I did not mean to imply that motor design/BL curves are all that matters. I was merely comparing apples to apples, motor type versus motor type.

I dont consider power compression an issue, because it is an outside factor. It would be akin to suggesting impedance rise is important to final performance. It is, but its a factor that occurs whether or not you use overhung, underhung, or whatever.

Electromagnetic dampening IS used. The alternating response of the signal, coupled with motor control over excursion, is electromagnetic dampening. We simply rely on mechanical suspension (spiders and surround) to offset the fact that a speaker has a moving mass that the motor does not/can not control completely. But I get your point, even servo controlled speakers will never follow the signal variance 100%. Until technology allows us to employ a zero mass diaphragm, we will always rely on mechanical dampening in conjunction with electromagnetic.

We are getting pretty deep here, aren't we? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Good discussion.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Off topic

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Im following you, and i agree that people tend to push their subs too hard. RMS ratings are too often seen as a minimum power requirement, and has helped to popularize the notion that 'underpowering' your subs is a bad thing.

Yes, you could eliminate the spiders, if your moving mass was zero. We are saying the same thing...

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Much of that is just the current generation where they are taking the least efficient way to increasing output. This is because it appears that amplifier wattage, be it true or bogus, is all part of the pissing match of the modern under 25 buyer. Superior enclosure design with taking as many factors into account, along with sound dampening, and proper system (HU/amp) settings take a serious back seat now. Aiming for the utmost in true personal listening enjoyment is not at all priority, where as showing off to buddies or making videos of your window glass flexing are the top. The market has been adjusting to that, many companies care very little about inductance anymore, few aim for a smooth response curve, and even less are caring about quality parts and materials while actually putting the development time into the design of their products. Least expensive, and loudest to the ear is all that the younger crowd really cares about. So in-efficient, peaky, non-dynamic, super cheap and bell curve response drivers are where most are going.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Good post denim.

The industry has moved towards less efficient subwoofers because of space limitations also. Hoffman's Iron Law tells us that to decrease enclosure size while still maintaining good low frequency extension, efficiency must be compromised. As cars get smaller and smaller, and watts get cheaper and cheaper, its only natural that subs will get less and less efficient.

People today like to talk about the more efficient drivers of 10 or 15 years ago as if they were somehow better designed speakers. They forget they we were also putting them in much larger enclosures, and thinking that a dollar a watt was a pretty good price point for amplifiers.

 

[candeshop407]

the only patent that was bought by Scot Atwell is the 18" 6 spoke basket that was specific to pre-bankrupt tc sounds/audiopulse drivers. the 10,12,15" baskets I believe Thilo still owns rights to but I'm not entirely sure. Scot doesn't own rights to those I know that.

The T3 version of those baskets are a much cheaper, thinner version from what I hear from people.

 

[burzendowski 10+ year member]

Lots of great info in this thread

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

eff has gone down cause with power being cheap people want there sub to handle 2k dont matter if its loud on 2k.

scott owns more than the 18" but not getting back into this again cause i heard t3 is closed up again

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Good post denim.
The industry has moved towards less efficient subwoofers because of space limitations also. Hoffman's Iron Law tells us that to decrease enclosure size while still maintaining good low frequency extension, efficiency must be compromised. As cars get smaller and smaller, and watts get cheaper and cheaper, its only natural that subs will get less and less efficient.

People today like to talk about the more efficient drivers of 10 or 15 years ago as if they were somehow better designed speakers. They forget they we were also putting them in much larger enclosures, and thinking that a dollar a watt was a pretty good price point for amplifiers.

The old Vega's need such a mega box it was almost silly. Loved those things though. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

the only patent that was bought by Scot Atwell is the 18" 6 spoke basket that was specific to pre-bankrupt tc sounds/audiopulse drivers. the 10,12,15" baskets I believe Thilo still owns rights to but I'm not entirely sure. Scot doesn't own rights to those I know that.
The T3 version of those baskets are a much cheaper, thinner version from what I hear from people.

Thought the tooling rights or appearance was part of the deal, meaning other baskets cannot resemble it. Similar when Ben got in trouble with JL and he had to redesign the basket because the original was a ringer for the W7.

 

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

 

cause i heard t3 is closed up again

Huh?

 

[candeshop407]

yes t3 has "closed doors" or stopped selling products again.

i apologize he has the 15 & 18" the 12 and 10 are a different story.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

The basket cannot be physically similar in design as in you can't copy it's looks but you can make something similar in dimensions but it can't look identical..

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

The basket cannot be physically similar in design as in you can't copy it's looks but you can make something similar in dimensions but it can't look identical..

What is the legal term? I am blanking, is it appearance or likeness rights?

 

---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

 

yes t3 has "closed doors" or stopped selling products again.

i apologize he has the 15 & 18" the 12 and 10 are a different story.

I thought the TSNS was going to destroy the world and wipe out all other sub woofers?

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

as usual JD talks too much and produces way less.

as the legal goes with the basket fi/crossfire own right to the 15 and 18" tc style basket while thio still has rights to the 10 and 12".

anybody can buy the basket from china but you can NOT sell a new woofer with that basket in the states without permission from the pat holder...