Subs with XBl^2
- Thread starter LIGHTBEING
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The W7 doesn't use xbl2, but it does have a similar bl curve (flat). As far as other subs that use it...all of the ascedant drivers, a couple of cs drivers, adire koda series, adire tumult probably others I am missing too.
Keep in mind that just because a driver uses xbl2 that does not mean the company will advertise it as such. According to Dan Wiggins there are plenty of them out there that we just don't know about because they cannot be disclosed.
Keep in mind that just because a driver uses xbl2 that does not mean the company will advertise it as such. According to Dan Wiggins there are plenty of them out there that we just don't know about because they cannot be disclosed.
loserpunk
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hapbahdasindot
xbl^2 isn't solely for subs though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
there are a number of mids and maybe some tweeters in the future that use it
there are a number of mids and maybe some tweeters in the future that use it
req
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am a mod.
xbl^2 is just a kind of motor like the TC'x' stuff. re REXXX has xbl^2 - its basically an overlapping magnetic field at the top of the motor (the gap)... they cut a series of rings out of the top plate that focus' several magnetic fields on the same spot increasing BL with less weight due to less material. given - they are still heavy drivers, but they can be MUCH smaller and lighter (ie, av15) and more efficent because less magnets are needed for the high bl and linerarity.
other motor structures use similar stuff - DEI has a technology *similar* to this, and i wouldnt be surprised if the H2 will or does use it.
its just a nice thing, because it helps keep a linear stroke (less distortion) and it makes a driver (usually) more efficent.
but the subs\mids listed are about all that i know of that have this specific motor... but again - some companies hire out adire to do their stuff too, and since adire is growing and starting their own manufacturing plant, they will most likely be doing that even more.
other motor structures use similar stuff - DEI has a technology *similar* to this, and i wouldnt be surprised if the H2 will or does use it.
its just a nice thing, because it helps keep a linear stroke (less distortion) and it makes a driver (usually) more efficent.
but the subs\mids listed are about all that i know of that have this specific motor... but again - some companies hire out adire to do their stuff too, and since adire is growing and starting their own manufacturing plant, they will most likely be doing that even more.
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Good info guys.
Do you know what technology the Eclipse Ti uses? Is it similar to the xbl^2. Like is the Eclipse even comparable with the Brahma and XXX regarding BL and being so accurate with less distortion at high levels?
Do you know what technology the Eclipse Ti uses? Is it similar to the xbl^2. Like is the Eclipse even comparable with the Brahma and XXX regarding BL and being so accurate with less distortion at high levels?
DEI and JBL both have dual gap technologies. But, where XBL^2 has the advantage is that it can be easily implimented into almost any driver, since it simply relies on "ribs" (or whatever you want to call them) being cut into the top plate and pole piece. The DEI and JBL versions of dual gap technologies actually use dual magnets, dual top plates, etc etc. As you can see, these are much more space prohibitive and not something easily implimented....especially into a small driver like a 4" mid or tweeter.
And as zebo said.....Dan has eluded many times to the fact that XBL^2 is out there in drivers that we don't know about (because they don't advertise it and because of non-disclosure contracts). Sure would be nice to know though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif
Answer:
Non-XBL^2 drivers can still sound excellent. Not to plug SS; but the TC2+ and TC9 are prime examples of that. Very nice "standard" design" low distortion subs. I read a review where someone preferred the sound of their Rl-p over the sound of their Brahma. And mmray's review, where the SS Rl-p and XXX were basically hand-&-hand SQ wise. And the IDMax is another great example of an excellent SQL (excellent sound quality and impressive output), while not being XBL^2 enabled.
So.....basically, don't discount a sub (or other driver) simply because it does not have XBL^2.
Just as an FYI, here is a pic of the PPI dual gap motor:
You can clearly see the two sets of magnets (the big obvious one, then the second ring of smaller magnets sandwiched between the two top plates) and two top plates.
You can clearly see the two sets of magnets (the big obvious one, then the second ring of smaller magnets sandwiched between the two top plates) and two top plates.
No, I believe that the TI has a pretty parabolic curve and doens't use any specific kind of motor topology that would make it non standard. As for the TI being as accurate at "high" levels, no distortion will raise at a consistent level as excursion increases. But like others have mentioned, some people just don't like subs that are as accurate as a brahma, it's all personal preference. Only when we talk about distortion or any other measurable quality can we make concrete statements about one sub compared to another. If you define sq as if a person "likes" it or not, thats really not going to be measurable.
req
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yep. decide on a driver based on your needs, power, space, and wants. if you want pure SPL, look into SPL drivers. then narrow it down to what drivers will work the best with space and power you have.
then decide on what other users (not 'hearders') have said about them.
thats what i do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
just because xbl^2 is there is irregardless. i need a very accurate driver that will power between 800~1000w in a medium (~2 cubes) sealed box.
price was ~$300
it came down to the rl-p and the av15 - i chose the av15 to be different and because at the time the rl-p was out of stock in the 15's... guess thats changed, but i still want the av15.
then decide on what other users (not 'hearders') have said about them.
thats what i do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
just because xbl^2 is there is irregardless. i need a very accurate driver that will power between 800~1000w in a medium (~2 cubes) sealed box.
price was ~$300
it came down to the rl-p and the av15 - i chose the av15 to be different and because at the time the rl-p was out of stock in the 15's... guess thats changed, but i still want the av15.
the atlas uses xbl2 http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Atlas%2012.htm
and so does the avalanche http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Avalanche%2015.htm
and so does the avalanche http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Avalanche%2015.htm
Hi guys.
Just a couple minor points to add-to or correct. Neither DEI or JBL have their own motor technology. Both liscense them from other companies. However JL Audio does own the patent on their motor which is an optimized overhung.
We have found that some people are so used to the distortion produced by their subs, they don't like the sound of an XBL^2 driver. This seems to be more true in subwoofers as I haven't seen anyone prefer a higher distortion midrange yet. The most well reguarded midranges have the lowest distortions (Seas Excel, Scan-Speak Revelator, and now our Extremis 6.8).
Steven Kephart
Adire Audio
Just a couple minor points to add-to or correct. Neither DEI or JBL have their own motor technology. Both liscense them from other companies. However JL Audio does own the patent on their motor which is an optimized overhung.
We have found that some people are so used to the distortion produced by their subs, they don't like the sound of an XBL^2 driver. This seems to be more true in subwoofers as I haven't seen anyone prefer a higher distortion midrange yet. The most well reguarded midranges have the lowest distortions (Seas Excel, Scan-Speak Revelator, and now our Extremis 6.8).
Steven Kephart
Adire Audio
I don't believe you, please send two 6.8's to me for testing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
And notice how two of the three don't use XBL^2
Sorry, not trying to sound like I'm bashing XBL^2.....cause I'm not. It is an awesome technology and well deserving of the respect it is given! It's just that anymore people throw the "term" around so much and make it sound like all else inferior, that it's nice to point out the examples of a great performing sub/speaker that do not use it.
And PS: I'm with undercover......I'll take some free "evaluation" samples of the Extremis to prove your claims //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
Thats what I was getting at, but you have to keep in mind when you tell people "you don't know what the hell you are listening to" they tend to get defensive. I would be interested in the science behind this as far as the perception of distortion at different frequencies goes, becuase what you said is true. I have never seen anyone prefer a mid that produces higher distortion than another.
audioholic
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I believe its because the midrange is a more natural sound than those low low bass notes, our ears are more acustom to how they are 'suppose' to sound. The midrange area is where things like human speech falls, and is easiest to detect anomolies. Set your EQ bumping some music until you think it sounds right, then change to talk radio and see how it sounds. most likely it'll be too bass heavy, but the midrange wil be close®. How much sub 50hz bass do we hear naturally? Very little. Most of that low bass we hear is generated, enhanced, distorted, etc by digital processors. Its hard to listen to it and relate it to a sound we hear in nature (other than man-made, through a speaker). I believe that's why sub systems seem to be so unbalanced with the rest of people's stereo systems, and why people seem to have more trouble deciding how bass 'should' sound.
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