Subs that hit that low end bass

[dman4486 5,000+ posts]

i could be wrong... but basic physics would state that decreasing the volume of a sealed enclosure will NOT improve low frequency extension

yes but it is understood that O.P. has too much poly in the box causing the volume realization to be too high.

 

[dr_peeb 10+ year member]

i could be wrong... but basic physics would state that decreasing the volume of a sealed enclosure will NOT improve low frequency extension

I think one of the earlier responses says it would in this case, and I agree it's likely. Basically, OP's line "it takes space to make bass", but it's still gotta be the right amount of space for the particular sub.

Taken to the extreme, if he took the sub completely out of the box, set it on his seat, and cranked it, the amount of bass he would hear is basically none.

Obviously that is too much space.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

I think one of the earlier responses says it would in this case, and I agree it's likely. Basically, OP's line "it takes space to make bass", but it's still gotta be the right amount of space for the particular sub.
Taken to the extreme, if he took the sub completely out of the box, set it on his seat, and cranked it, the amount of bass he would hear is basically none.

Obviously that is too much space.

i see your point... but here is mine, it takes linear movement and motorforce to overcome the pressure in a sealed box, the lower the frequency the larger the stroke of the subwoofer (typically)... if the motor cannot overcome the pressure inside the box... the subwoofer will not move and will not play any lower... increasing the pressure in the box by removing volume will not fix this it should counteract it infact.

Easy way to look at it... Some of the absolute lowest hitting system... are your hardcore infinite baffle setups in the SQ vehicles.

 

[KJThaDon 10+ year member]

Shoot I found some Pioneer Premier subs that go down to 20hz, but Pioneer subs BLOW!

Those Pioneer Premiers are actually pretty nice

 

[dr_peeb 10+ year member]

i see your point... but here is mine, it takes linear movement and motorforce to overcome the pressure in a sealed box, the lower the frequency the larger the stroke of the subwoofer (typically)... if the motor cannot overcome the pressure inside the box... the subwoofer will not move and will not play any lower... increasing the pressure in the box by removing volume will not fix this it should counteract it infact.
Easy way to look at it... Some of the absolute lowest hitting system... are your hardcore infinite baffle setups in the SQ vehicles.

If he were to triple the volume of his sealed box, do you think the bass would be better?

I don't. I think it would be even worse.

I'd guess that the infinite baffle systems you're referring to are using subs specifically made for an infinite baffle install. No?

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

i could be wrong... but basic physics would state that decreasing the volume of a sealed enclosure will NOT improve low frequency extension

i see your point... but here is mine, it takes linear movement and motorforce to overcome the pressure in a sealed box, the lower the frequency the larger the stroke of the subwoofer (typically)... if the motor cannot overcome the pressure inside the box... the subwoofer will not move and will not play any lower... increasing the pressure in the box by removing volume will not fix this it should counteract it infact.
Easy way to look at it... Some of the absolute lowest hitting system... are your hardcore infinite baffle setups in the SQ vehicles.

It's great to see that you're thinking, but unfortunately, you aren't quite correct. Making a sealed enclosure larger independently will not guarantee you lower frequency response. What it can do is make your enclosure more efficient and lower the F3 point of the system, which is the 1/2 power frequency or 3dB point as we like to call it. However, once the enclosure gets to be too large, you end up with, as you said, an enclosure that acts like it's an infinite baffle. That's not good for speakers who are not designed for it, as if they aren't, they require counteracting air pressure on the back of the cone to keep the excursion controlled.

To make this a bit clearer, let's simplify this and consider a sealed full range speaker, perhaps a Hi-Vi B3S since it's pretty popular. The speaker has a magnesium cone and a very supple surround, and as such, it has very low moving mass and very low resistance to movement and a consequently high Fs compared to other speakers its size. As stated previously, Fs is the frequency in which the moving mass of the speaker is identically balanced with the force of the suspension that's controlling said moving mass. If you control just one parameter, be it Ms or Cms (which controls the compliance, or 1/stiffness of the moving mass), you can therefore alter the Fs. With that said, if you look at IB lines of speakers, you'll notice that they have beefier suspensions than those of their enclosed counterparts as they need suspensions that can keep them controlled when extending down to lower frequencies where other speakers would require damping from an enclosure. Now that is not always true, as it's a rule of thumb, but it's something to consider.

Basically what it gets down to is no, making an enclosure larger will not grant you lower bass extension unless your speaker is designed to do it. If it isn't, you'll likely just bottom out the speaker since there isn't enough air to control the cone.

If any of this is erroneous, let me know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[jkok7 10+ year member]

Fi. QAscendant Audio Havoc

JL W7

Alpine Type X

Re Audio XXX

Dayton Titanic III

Image Dynamics IDMAX

All of these are great SQ subs that happen to get deathly loud. I own/have owned the following: Dayton, Type X, W7 and the Q, and have heard all of the rest. They're great speakers, but out of all of these given what you have, I'd suggest the IDMAX, the Havoc or the XXX. As far as the XXX goes, you'll want one that's 2005 or earlier, aka new, because they changed it significantly and I don't really consider it to be a great SQ woofer anymore.

Hey whats the website for the Dayton Titanic? I was trying to find their website and haven't had any success. Also do you know where I might be able to find the AA Havoc for a good price? Cuz I don't kwow if that's a real popular sub on the forums.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Hey whats the website for the Dayton Titanic? I was trying to find their website and haven't had any success. Also do you know where I might be able to find the AA Havoc for a good price? Cuz I don't kwow if that's a real popular sub on the forums.

Dayton is retailed through Parts-Express.
http://www.parts-express.com/speakers.cfm

Just click on subwoofers and look through the sizes (the one in the sample pic on the site banner is a Dayton Reference Series subwoofer).

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

you need the right woofer for the application..

low qe low fs woofer ported will do much better..

id say 3 SS rlp 12s ported tuned to 26hz would float your boat..

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

you need the right woofer for the application..low qe low fs woofer ported will do much better..

id say 3 SS rlp 12s ported tuned to 26hz would float your boat..

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif What is Qe, do you mean Le?

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif What is Qe, do you mean Le?

qe as in electrical dampening..

qes.. lower q woofers work better in small boxes.. i recommended them because the have a very low fs and a low qes.. no doubt ported is the way to go.. 3 in 5 cubes tuned in the mid 20s will get plenty low and still be close to the 4 12s sealed above 50 hz...

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

qe as in electrical dampening..qes.. lower q woofers work better in small boxes.. i recommended them because the have a very low fs and a low qes.. no doubt ported is the way to go.. 3 in 5 cubes tuned in the mid 20s will get plenty low and still be close to the 4 12s sealed above 50 hz...

I thought you might mean Qes, but I wasn't sure. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[tekk45 10+ year member]

The American Bass XD series subs work well in infinite baffles and have nearly identical specs to the Dayton for less cost. I installed 2 15's behind the seat of a 2000 Accord in an infinte baffle setup. This setup played well below 20Hz.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

I thought you might mean Qes, but I wasn't sure. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

the suggestions you made would do nicely sealed..

ESP the IDs there jusy expensive..

 

[jkok7 10+ year member]

you need the right woofer for the application..low qe low fs woofer ported will do much better..

id say 3 SS rlp 12s ported tuned to 26hz would float your boat..

What are 3 SS RLP 12s? What does that stand for?