SQL: Does it exist?

[Vestax 10+ year member]

wtf is that?

I think M goes to concerts where there's 3 bands playing at all times.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

stock systems arent designed on staging or flatness. they are design on tonally balanced sound. which is why it doesnt bother the ear to the norms.

james bong, by substage i mean that trunk rattle wanging!

 

[SSS 18734 5,000+ posts]

May as well throw out 'sq' too since its immeasurable.

Yes it is. How do you think there are competitions on it? SQ is not subjective, like most people believe it to be.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

This is a common misconception about 'playing flat'. The idea isn't that your stereo plays music flat/monotone/whatever. The idea is, if given a signal that has equal amplitude at every frequency, the stereo will reproduce this signal via having exactly the same output level at every frequency. This is not to say your system will play music 'flat', obviously not as the music's signal is not flat.
The idea is/was that if your system can play pink noise with exactly the same output at every frequency, then the stereo has no frequency anomalies that would interfere with accurately reproducing the (non-flat) signal of a song. IOW, if a system can display a 'flat' frequency response given a 'flat' signal, that means it has no peaks or dips on frequency response at any level.

People generally dont like the sound of a system tuned 'flat' and state that it is due to losses in dynamics. This is a misconception. There is no reason why a system tuned to play 'flat' cannot also exhibit excellent dynamics. Its trying to equate to unrelated topics as equal. Dynamics have to do with extreme changes in amplitude of the signal, very rapidly. This is a function of many things, including 'headroom' of the amplifier(s) and charging system. But it is NOT a function of a system that can or cannot play pink noise 'flat'. Unrelated topics.

That's the misconception. The truth is people prefer music that has exaggerated midbass, artificially dynamic vocals, or bass-heavy output depending on the material, etc etc etc. So we adjust our sound processors accordingly. Accuracy versus perception... they are not the same thing.

leave it audioholic to leave me dazed and confused lol

no i get it, it makes sense, the system should have a flat tune, but that doesnt mean the music played has a flat reproduction, but the reproduction of the music should not be changed by the dynamics of the tune of the sytem

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Yes it is. How do you think there are competitions on it? SQ is not subjective, like most people believe it to be.

Gee why didnt I think of that. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

leave it audioholic to leave me dazed and confused lol
no i get it, it makes sense, the system should have a flat tune, but that doesnt mean the music played has a flat reproduction, but the reproduction of the music should not be changed by the dynamics of the tune of the sytem

If you feed your stereo a signal that is 'flat', the output from the speakers should also be 'flat'. In theory, this is exactly what is being measured with the RTA. Its an imperfect way of measuring a system's frequency accuracy. But even in measuring this one aspect of sound reproduction (frequency response), it does not show the whole picture because music is dynamic. A system's ability to play flat, when asked to, has little bearing on its ability to handle the rapid transient changes in frequency response when playing music. It simply shows elementary problems in the system that need to be addressed (holes in response, or peaks, etc).
Im one of the champions around here of the idea that SQ is measurable, objective not subjective. And it is. The problem is we dont have the technology to completely measure 'accuracy' fully... transient freq response over time, spacial imaging in the listening environment, all the intangible aspects of reproduction that dont show up on any graph, chart or equation. The human brain and ears are relied upon to 'fill in the blanks'. And there are alot of really big blanks to fill in.

 

[Innovative:Cory 10+ year member]

Wow this thread is just full of fail!!!

SQL for one is an actual acronym...it stand for MECA's Sound Quality League... just like SPL stands for Sound Pressure League, now before you get ready to flame...I know SPL also stands for Sound Pressure Level and that is measured in dB....

As a SQ competitor.... you are supposed to build you system to accurately reproduce the recording as if it is a live performance in front of you... so should your kick ass drum solo come from behind your head? No it would appear at or about center stage in a position that is farther back from the vocalist.. I can literally type pages about the subject matter... A guitar should sound like a guitar is being played directly in front of you.. Same with a Drum, Bass, Oboe, Saxophone, Flute, Triangle, Cowbell...etc, etc... The sound should appear "transparent" remember this is trying to reproduce a "live" performance...you should't hear a cymbal strike and know that it came directly from your tweeter all the way on the left side of the car, when the drummer who struck it wasn't on the left side of the sound stage...

There should be seperation...as in ..all the instruments shouldn't be placed on top of each other, there should be space in between the instruments...

A center stage should be direct center of the vehicle, with little or no movement if its a studio recording, or with accurate movement if its an actual live recording... you shouldn't hear your midbass coming from your feet since the bassist, drummer are not down by your feat..

There are tons of sq related terms that can be broken down and examples given but in all honesty that can take weeks and even then I dont know how many people would understand it.. Sometimes you just have to listen to a properly tuned, setup car to understand...

An SQ car can play extremely loud...but its not a certain band of frequencies that are being played... its the entire audible spectrum... My car can play at 130dB all day long, with no discoloration, distortion, continue to stage amazingly accurate and will play anything I load into the CD slot....

Yes having an audiophile system will show what cd's are mixed poorly, radio stations will generally sound like a$$, and suffice to say so will xm&sirius will also sound poorly... but it will show you who is just slapping some tracks down to get a cd out, or who is taking the time to record an amazing recording...

Eagles Hell Freezes Over is an amazingly detailed, well recorded and engineered disc... a decent setup will sound good on this disc, a system built for an audiophile or competing will sound amazing... there is one track on that disc that I can hear the overhead lights buzzing... that is part of what sq is about....playing all of these little details that you didnt know where in the recording...

As an SQ judge I use the defintions that are set in the rule book to make my scoring decisions...it doesn't matter if you drive a pink car, red car, blue car, car on fire... i am not judging the car I am judging how well the audio system system is able to reproduce an actual live performance. I have been to all type of live performances from symphony's to rock concerts.. some have sounded really really good, some have sounded horrible.... please refer to comment about poorly mixed cd's.....

All of the recording I must use to score a vehicle I have listened to on a very very very good home theater setup as a reference point, so I know where my imaging cues should come from..left is left, center is center, right is right...etc...etc...

on the "left stage" portion on the score sheet.... if it is supposed to be coming from the left...it had better do so...same thing with right stage and center stage....if it doesn't eminate from where its supposed to then the sound reproduction is wrong, and therefore can not score as well as another vehicle that does...

tonality... you can hear differences in the sound of speakers...1 brand might be a little muddy, 1 brand my have a harsh tweeter, 1 brand might have a really soft tweeter... the speakers should add no discoloration to the recording..you should hear the music as the sound engineer mixed it... so if you are listening to a recording and there should be a soft wind instrument in the back ground and its not there, then its not accurately reproducing the recording.... just as much is true if there is supposed to be a nice mellow kick drum that blends with all the other instruments in the mix, it shouldn't be reproduced in a way that it is "taking your head off, as in too loud"....

is anyone starting to understand some of this?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wow this thread is just full of fail!!!
SQL for one is an actual acronym...it stand for MECA's Sound Quality League... just like SPL stands for Sound Pressure League, now before you get ready to flame...I know SPL also stands for Sound Pressure Level and that is measured in dB....

What is your point? So if MECA uses the acronym as a name of its 'league', that means the common use of 'SQL' in this context is unfounded? I wont even argue which came first, I'll just use your logic and say "SQL" stands for Structured Query Language, and has since well before any audio term of the same letters existed, thus I guess MECA needs to change their league's name.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

This is a common misconception about 'playing flat'. The idea isn't that your stereo plays music flat/monotone/whatever. The idea is, if given a signal that has equal amplitude at every frequency, the stereo will reproduce this signal via having exactly the same output level at every frequency. This is not to say your system will play music 'flat', obviously not as the music's signal is not flat.
The idea is/was that if your system can play pink noise with exactly the same output at every frequency, then the stereo has no frequency anomalies that would interfere with accurately reproducing the (non-flat) signal of a song. IOW, if a system can display a 'flat' frequency response given a 'flat' signal, that means it has no peaks or dips on frequency response at any level.

People generally dont like the sound of a system tuned 'flat' and state that it is due to losses in dynamics. This is a misconception. There is no reason why a system tuned to play 'flat' cannot also exhibit excellent dynamics. Its trying to equate to unrelated topics as equal. Dynamics have to do with extreme changes in amplitude of the signal, very rapidly. This is a function of many things, including 'headroom' of the amplifier(s) and charging system. But it is NOT a function of a system that can or cannot play pink noise 'flat'. Unrelated topics.

That's the misconception. The truth is people prefer music that has exaggerated midbass, artificially dynamic vocals, or bass-heavy output depending on the material, etc etc etc. So we adjust our sound processors accordingly. Accuracy versus perception... they are not the same thing.

Thank you for saving me the keystrokes.

.......I may just make myself available //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[00RedRT 10+ year member]

Wow this thread is just full of fail!!!
SQL for one is an actual acronym...it stand for MECA's Sound Quality League... just like SPL stands for Sound Pressure League, now before you get ready to flame...I know SPL also stands for Sound Pressure Level and that is measured in dB....

I brought this up a few pages back... http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5447661&postcount=37 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Innovative:Cory 10+ year member]

I brought this up a few pages back... http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5447661&postcount=37 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I know Darren.... it was good to see your truck at world by the way...gorgeous!

 

[00RedRT 10+ year member]

I know Darren.... it was good to see your truck at world by the way...gorgeous!

Thank you kindly!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsupwink.gif.129404938effda6ad9cca39e7f4b58a3.gif