Sound Deadening with weight in mind

[7ender 10+ year member]

The adhesive on P&S is asphalt, which melts at 180 degrees, and is toxic.
ANT

x2...When I was first looking for deadener I was about the get some peel n seal. Then I saw all the threads on it melting and ruining people's cars and I decided not to be a cheap *** and got Raammat bxt.

 

[subyman 10+ year member]

Thanks for the information SSR. I will probably go with strategically placed tiles instead of a smearing 20lbs on the door haha. I've worked with Peel and Seal before doing a roof on a flip house, I'm surprised people use it in their cars. For one thing it stinks and it seems like it would slide on a vertical surface.

Are there links to any tutorials on how to figure out where to place the tiles?

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Peel and seal is nothing close to the same thing as Dynamat (spelled with an "A" not and "O")
The foil on Dynamat extreme is 200% thicker than the foil on Peel and seal, it is also a stronger foil, not a soft foil like P&S. Soft foil does nothing for constraining the adhesive.

The adhesive on P&S is asphalt, which melts at 180 degrees, and is toxic.

The adhesive on Dynamat Extreme is butyl based, non toxic, and set to a specific gravity that is going to reduce vibration in a car, not adhere to a roof.

The suggestion of P&S in a car is a very uninformed one and could lead to disaster. Not everyon has bad luck with P&S, but there are enough cases out there to warrant considerable caution when making the claim that it is the same as DynAmat.

ANT

x2

Not to mention that it is going to take 6-10 times as much P&S to get the job done. It's going to cost more, take much more time and effort and still have all of the negative attributes Ant described. Really bad idea if you value your car, your time and your money.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Either go on a diet, or make peace with yourself that you're not trying to set lap records with this vehicle.

 

[subyman 10+ year member]

Okay, so from what I gather you go with a large enough area of vibration dampener and then put some sort of noise barrier over that. My question is how much area am I looking at getting of the dampener for two doors? Several 2sqft tiles or am I looking at having to order a roll? I assume the sound barrier goes over the outside door skin to block external noises. So I will order as much as the surface area of my door.

Does this sound right? Seems like I don't need as much as I thought I would.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Are there links to any tutorials on how to figure out where to place the tiles?

Try to hit the flatter areas first.

Think about ti this way.

Have you ever taken a flat piece of materil like sheet metal or plexiglass and shook it rapidly?

A really large piece makes a wobbly type of resonant noise. The larger it is the deeper the noise that comes from it... Wish I had a video..

Wwll, if you try to do that with a stamped or pre-formed peice of sheet metal it wont work. Won't make noise. The flat areas of the car wobble in the same manor only in a more rappid sussession; at a higher frequency. The mroe frequent the peak to peak movement of the metal the higher the pitch of noise. Treating the flat areas of the car is the first step in reducing that resonant noise in the sheet metal. When being strategic about it, more is not always better. The shotgun approach works for sure, but with some added weight and dollars to go along with it.

For your car and goals you will have to figure out what the right amount is.

Start with about a third coverage and see how far that gets you.

Once you are comfortable with the results, hit up the barrier. ( this should cover no less than 100% of the areas oppostie the noise generating souce; tires, ******, engine etc)

Hope that helps

ANT

 

[gotparts90 10+ year member]

I farted.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Okay, so from what I gather you go with a large enough area of vibration dampener and then put some sort of noise barrier over that. My question is how much area am I looking at getting of the dampener for two doors? Several 2sqft tiles or am I looking at having to order a roll? I assume the sound barrier goes over the outside door skin to block external noises. So I will order as much as the surface area of my door.
Does this sound right? Seems like I don't need as much as I thought I would.

Well it depends.

If you are trying to reduce the resoance in the sheet metal that will need very little material. This is why Dynamat used to sell a bulk pack (36 sq feet) to do an entire car. Reducing resonance is easy.

If however you have an aftermarket sound sytem that has a decent amount of power you will need to use a good deal more material than 36 sq feet to treat and average sized car. HOw much depends on the car, the system and your goals. Reducing panel flex and a range of frequencies out side of the panels resonant frequency can take a solid layer of quality product, or even 2 layers of a less quality product to achieve the desired results.

In eitehr case I always suggest going with lesser of a high quality product that more of a crap shoot.

Look in to these brands:

Cascade

Hushmat

Dynamat Extreme

SDS Tiles

and that other popular brand...

ANT

 

[subyman 10+ year member]

Okay, this has been very helpful.

I measured my door and it is roughly 4ftx2ft. 25% is the minimum needed in some cases, so I should probably order roughly 50%. 4sqft on each door skin and probably a bit more to do the structure of the door. Say 8sqft per door of sound deadening. Then 8 sqft of noise barrier on the door.

16sqft of sound deadener + 16sqft of noise barrier.

Sound about right to get started?

Just for reference I will be putting Phoenix Gold RSD60cs with about 80-100watts going to them in the doors.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Okay, this has been very helpful.
I measured my door and it is roughly 4ftx2ft. 25% is the minimum needed in some cases, so I should probably order roughly 50%. 4sqft on each door skin and probably a bit more to do the structure of the door. Say 8sqft per door of sound deadening. Then 8 sqft of noise barrier on the door.

16sqft of sound deadener + 16sqft of noise barrier.

Sound about right to get started?

Just for reference I will be putting Phoenix Gold RSD60cs with about 80-100watts going to them in the doors.

Souds good, but really, putting a barrier on a door can be a bit difficult.

Most barriers are decently thick, not allowing the factory upholstery to be put back in place. For the back of the upholster use a gasketing foam or a thick, open celled foam that compresses well.

The best you can do with a barrier on doors is INSIDE the door behind the window. This might be difficult dependingo n the design of the door and the acces hole the factry saw fit to create when developing the doors.

ANT

 

[basscort2009 5,000+ posts]

Umm.. Rattles?Rattles occur when 2 panels connect with one another and make noise.

Vibrations occur when a single panel resonates without touching another panel.

I think what you mean is that is vibrated less than before.

I don't mean to sound brash, but duct tape or elmers glue would make it vibrate less than before.

Try using a real vibration damper and run the same test. The difference is night and day! like knocking on solid led or rubber.

For the money you pay on a professional 2 part polyurethane system it is not worth the small amount of vibration reduction you get.

Protection? Sure. the stuff is awesome! No doubt.

Hardly a vibration damper though.

ANT

i have dynamat on my car now and it melted to my whole trunk. which sucked. and peel and seal in my wifes escort did the same thing. and they both helped with vibrations and noise elimination, so in my book p and s is just as good. and for all the technical mumbo jumbo, i guess thats why retards keep payin out the *** to keep dynamat and other mats in business.

BEDLINER AND PEEL N SEAL FTW!

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Guys like me die over 10lbs in the car //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thanks for the help everyone. I will order about 30-40sqft and see what that does me.

Brand suggestions for getting the most deadening for the least weight? I'm guessing I want to stay away from tar?

Perhaps buy a car that makes real HP/torque and you won't have to sweat 10#'s then //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Add the deadener and figure out somewhere else to lose the weight to offset what you've added //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

i have dynamat on my car now and it melted to my whole trunk. which sucked. and peel and seal in my wifes escort did the same thing. and they both helped with vibrations and noise elimination, so in my book p and s is just as good. and for all the technical mumbo jumbo, i guess thats why retards keep payin out the *** to keep dynamat and other mats in business.
BEDLINER AND PEEL N SEAL FTW!

Dynamat Xtreme didn't melt in your trunk. Maybe Dynamat Original. I'll agree that Dynamat Original and Peel & Seal are both worthless. Learn a little more about how vibration dampers work before characterizing the mental capacity of others.

 

[basscort2009 5,000+ posts]

Dynamat Xtreme didn't melt in your trunk. Maybe Dynamat Original. I'll agree that Dynamat Original and Peel & Seal are both worthless. Learn a little more about how vibration dampers work before characterizing the mental capacity of others.

yep just checked and it is dynamat xtreme. well all the locals here use peel and seal and have great success with alot of tenths gained so i just think its all about preferance in my mind. but to each is own

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

If OP doesnt want to add 30lbs to his car to make a drastic difference in the sound, he is a ricer and will hopefully crash his stupid car.