Sound Deadener?

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I have heard all the stories already ... raam mat is good for like floors, but it will eventually fall off of doors and side panels - and don't even think about the roof.

I have never heard of RAAMmat BXT failing in any installation.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Wow, apparently my post is completely worthless or you like to hack down previous posts (mine) for a post count.

Jeez, your a little sensitive for this place. I was pretty gentle considering how bad your advice was, but since you insist, let's look at your "brilliant" advice. I promise you I don't care what my post count is.

Being that I've installed a lot of deadner and am under the impression that even if they sold it for double the price any kind of deadner would still be worth it......I'll put my 2 cents in.

This is idiotic - double the price for anything sold as deadener would be worth it?

Your best case scenario would be to do 3 things:

1. Secure your wheel-wells with a liquid deadner. Mat would require HIGH maintenance and upkeep because it would be applied upside down in the wheel-well. Because, in this case, Mat would be applied on the outer shell of the vehicle, you would have heat in the summer and cold in the winter causing negative affects on the tar based (or butyl) backing. Simply put causing it to constantly fall off especially if the Mat were layered on top of its self. Mat is heavier then you expect. This step alone will not solve your road noise problem nor will you gain any SQ out of your audio.

Liquid deadener is always going to be less effective than a decent butyl/aluminum foil mat. In the circumstances you describe, butyl/aluminum foil mat is also going to be more durable for external use than any of the liquids sold for sound deadening.

The only butyl mat that has ever been reported to fail because of poor adhesive bond strength is eDead v1². All eDeads use Mylar instead of aluminum foil so I wouldn't use them any way.

The falling off scenario you describe so dramatically will apply to asphalt only. Since asphalt should NEVER be used for sound deadening, that problem will no occur.

Since any exterior sound deadening is going to be exposed to the elements, I'd only suggest it as a last resort - when materials applied to the interior don't get the job done. The exception to this would be if you have a problem with gravel and dirt being thrown into the wheel wells making noise. In this case, one of the undercoating products designed specifically for this would be a better and more durable choice.

2. Secure the insides of all four doors. In this case use your Mat. The level of sound deadening will vary on how much you apply. The more the better, don't be afraid to pile it on. This step will ensure you substantial gain in door speaker output and clarity and a low to moderate decrease in road noise.

"Secure" is a bizarre choice of words, but OK. Advising anyone to "pile it on" is only good advice if you are trying to increase vibration damper sales. There is a point of diminishing returns. I personally use more than makes real scientific sense, but once the resonance is out of the panels, there is little point in adding more. Much better to get a barrier in there after you have damped the doors thoroughly.

That said, doors are extremely transparent to noise. Sealing up the access holes is also very important for both noise abatement and improved response from door mounted speakers. I like to use aluminum flashing that I buy at Home Depot, in the roofing department. A few self tapping screws, some silicon sealer and a little deadener and you are good to go.

3. Secure your floor with Mat (Temporarily removing factory seats and carpet to apply). In this case floors can't handle many layers of Mat due to re-fitting factory carpet and such. Decide on a thicker than the normal type of mat. An example would be too apply a Dynamat Extreme compared to a Dynamat Original. If your are able to fit more than one layer of Mat on the floor, then by all means do so due to the fact that this step will reduce more road noise then step 2. This step will also allow for improved SQ inside the cabin.

Again, a little bit of vibration damper covered by a barrier is going to be MUCH more effective. Dynamat Xtreme is 67 mils thick. Dynamat Original is 70-80 mils thick. Dynamat Original is also asphalt so it violates the first rule of sound deadening. "This step will also allow for improved SQ inside the cabin." ?????

ALL THREE steps put together will allow you a quiter ride. Unfortunately you will more than likely continue to hear some form of muffled road noise considering that these are 36" mud tires.

As far as improved SQ is concerned. Due to the fact that we are talking about a vehicle with a rather large cabin space, more Mat will be needed. Although steps 2 and 3 will improve your SQ and stop rattles, layers of Mat underneath the roof liner and back hatch are just as important when installing a complete audio system (Aftermarket speakers and subwoofers).

Look at eBay for different types of Mat as it can get expensive quickly.

Hope this helps.

-Drew

There's no doubt that following your three steps would lead to some incremental improvement, but no where near what can be achieved if you approach the project logically. Vibration damper reduces resonance and vibration. Barriers block noise. Use the right tool for the job.

The eBay advice can be very dangerous. Several eBay vendors routinely claim that the asphalt flashing tape they are selling is butyl. It's fine if you are buying a known brand from a known vendor, but I'd stay away from the people selling sound deadener and exercise equipment or tea cups. There are some real scoundrels in this market.

I hope this response is more to your liking. I'm sorry I previously chose to just offer my opinion without explaining how wrong you were on almost every point. Sorry if that hurt your feelings. I've taken the time to explain why you are wrong on almost every point. Hope that's better for you.

 

[DDeitz 10+ year member]

SecondSkin is the best you can buy - so good choice. It will make your car quieter - making your music sound better. So yes. Someone more knowledgeable on deadener will fill you in on exactly where for best results - the more the better though.

Cascade i would say is better quality then second skin, but also more expensive.

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

I have heard all the stories already ... raam mat is good for like floors, but it will eventually fall off of doors and side panels - and don't even think about the roof.

Wow! Have you ever used Raammat? Or are you just talking out of your ***?

 

[PaulD 10+ year member]

I have heard of several instances ...... information may be a bit dated though, I come and go in car audio sites in cycles. Gotta remember I have been doing car audio for 30 years (yes, I'm an old fart)

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I have heard of several instances ...... information may be a bit dated though, I come and go in car audio sites in cycles. Gotta remember I have been doing car audio for 30 years (yes, I'm an old fart)

I'm sure that was several years ago when RAAMmat and everything else - Dynamat, Second Skin, etc. were all made of asphalt. Of the butyl adhesive mats, the only one I've heard of falling off is eDead v1².

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I have heard of several instances ...... information may be a bit dated though, I come and go in car audio sites in cycles. Gotta remember I have been doing car audio for 30 years (yes, I'm an old fart)

Your information is apparently very out-dated.

Why you're spreading inaccurate information based on out-dated info is a little perplexing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif It would probably be advisable that you not speak unless you actually know what you're talking about, using up to date information.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Cascade i would say is better quality then second skin, but also more expensive.

Our opinions migth differ there.The company that Cascade uses to make their product is a good on, but not the best in the business. I chose to our manufacture based on quality, at any cost.

ANT

 

[DDeitz 10+ year member]

Our opinions migth differ there.The company that Cascade uses to make their product is a good on, but not the best in the business. I chose to our manufacture based on quality, at any cost.
ANT

been a long sunday for ye?

but on a serious note, I suppose what i should of said was, Cascade is another brand at the top. Because i have not herd a single thing about Second Skin that was less then impressive.

 

[PaulD 10+ year member]

I looked everywhere I could think of for those reviews/comments of deadener mats but came up empty. After looking thru MANY threads about raammat and then visiting the website, I would have to say that it is indeed a quality product and I should not have posted that without looking it up first, sorry guys.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I looked everywhere I could think of for those reviews/comments of deadener mats but came up empty. After looking thru MANY threads about raammat and then visiting the website, I would have to say that it is indeed a quality product and I should not have posted that without looking it up first, sorry guys.

That's the problem with a long memory - you remember when good products were bad and bad products were good //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm right there with you.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Our opinions migth differ there.The company that Cascade uses to make their product is a good on, but not the best in the business. I chose to our manufacture based on quality, at any cost.
ANT

This actually sounds like you're inferring that your products are of superior quality. Nice choice of words, Ant.

At any cost? You searched ALL available options available to you and selected the best one for your specific product design parameters and target market?

If you want to stand out as the best, try bringing something of your own to the market for once rather than reformulating and reproducing other's ideas and undercutting them on price. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Okay i got 36" Mud Grapplers on my ride, and hearing the tires is really annoying. So im looking to buy some Sound Deadening Material. Will this Material also improve my sound quality?
I was looking at this web site (http://www.b-quiet.com/) Are they good?

I was also reading the different types, Damper, Absorber, Barrier, and Composite, which would be best to get? I really just want to improve my sound quality the most.

Lets just say that hypothetically the tires produce 80 dB noise at 250 hz.

Adding a single layer of B-quiet will probably get you 3dB in transmission loss. This is because the exterior panels (sheet metal) will conduct some amount of noise as the tire noise excites them. Putting damping mat will help attenuate the structure borne noise by removing most of the resonance that contributes to the theoretical 80 dB, thus leaving you with 77 dB.

To work that 77 dB down even further, you're probably going to want to block it from getting to your ears. More deadening mat is not the optimal choice as it's a poor product of choice for the job.

Blocking noise takes mass. You can get this done in a number of ways - some are optimal for a car, some are not. A top consideration is a flexible barrier that can be conformed to the shape of the car panel.

Selecting a barrier should take into account the surface mass per unit thickness. For example, something like Dynamat Extreme is about 1.5 kg/m2 per mm of thickness. Contrast this to a lead sheet which might be 10 kg/m2 per mm of thickness. The transmission loss varies by weight, but just as a rule of thumb, a barrier that's 1 lb/sqft and 1/8" thick will probably knock that noise level down by 16 dB. This is most of the commercially available mass loaded vinyl.

Once you have the barrier picked out, then you need to understand that you can improve the noise blocking performance of it by mechanically isolating it from the surface. So, adding a layer of foam or something between the barrier layer and the surface can give you another 18 dB of noise attenuation (on paper.) Check the firewall in your vehicle, I bet there already is a floating barrier of sorts in place. My car, for example, came equiped with a 1/2" cotton-backed vinyl blanket over the surface of the firewall and the under dash area.

So, if you start adding this up....3 + 16 + 18...you're really down to where these treatments make a major difference. To cut 80 dB nearly in half would be pretty impressive. On an A-weighted scale, you'd perceive that as being 4 times a quieter than before. However, in the real world...if you got your mic out and did the measurements...you might not find this to be the case. Nonetheless, you put some critical thinking into the project and selected the right tools for the job.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

This actually sounds like you're inferring that your products are of superior quality.

You are very perceptive.

Deductive reasoning suites you well young padawan..

At any cost? You searched ALL available options available to you and selected the best one for your specific product design parameters and target market?

Correct. And I chose to go with the manufacturer that allows me to improve upon their formula with my own 3rd party chemists formulations. Even though it costs more than the "off the shelf" products other companies sell, I would rather have a smaller margin with better products.

If you want to stand out as the best, try bringing something of your own to the market for once rather than reformulating and reproducing other's ideas and undercutting them on price. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Are you saying that there is something wrong with offering a superior product at a competitive rate?

Being the best has nothing to do with being innovative.

Is BMW not innovative because because they stole the idea of 4 wheels on a chassis from Henry Ford?

No, the changes they have made within the product they sell are in fact innovative.

ANT