So why dont 3 way components run an 8 in?

[fly_marlin]

Also, i think on axis/off axis is a mute point(not counting beaming/reflections) if you have processing to deal with that. Some of the processors out there have like -12db or more(less?) cuts so you can really balance out output from the speakers.

First, the word is "moot," not "mute." Second, processing does not account for on/off axis response. Speaker design determines this, that's why speaker placement is important - you account for your driver's design. Different crossover slopes give versatility in regard to "blending" your drivers/stages together.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

That's right and that's not at all what I said. I said with respect to the substage. Once everything is delayed for the listening position, you delay everything even more by the same amount so that it's in sync with the substage. Since we were only talking about blending front stage with the subs, that's all I noted.

That is false. Time alignment itself is based on the furthest speaker in the system. Your subs are most likely the furthest speaker from your listening position. If your doing your alignment properly you dont need to account for distance to subs because it was in the initial math.

 

[fly_marlin]

That is false. Time alignment itself is based on the furthest speaker in the system. Your subs are most likely the furthest speaker from your listening position. If your doing your alignment properly you dont need to account for distance to subs because it was in the initial math.

What I'm saying is that the delay between all front stage in regard to the sub is the same once you've already accounted for time delay for the listening position. Also, nowhere have I seen that TA starts with a sub as there reference furthest speaker. And as far as I understand, the alignment in regard to the sub stage is needed mostly due to group delay, which is much more significant in ported enclosures, and not due to the sub being physically the furthest.

Take for example a 2-way setup. You align 3 closest speakers to match the furthest one, say those delay values are X, Y, and Zms. To further align to the sub stage, those values will all change by the same constant and your final values will be, X+C, Y+C, and Z+Cms.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

This is why the MS-8 does not worry about TAing the sub

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

This is why the MS-8 does not worry about TAing the sub

You really dont need to worry about the sub. Subwoofers are the least affected speaker in the entire system by timing. You could safely ignore TA on a sub and not notice a difference.

 

[fly_marlin]

You really dont need to worry about the sub. Subwoofers are the least affected speaker in the entire system by timing. You could safely ignore TA on a sub and not notice a difference.

May be dependent on setup, but I hear a clear difference and even spoke to some competitors who all did it. You'd never notice it rap music, but in metal...it's 100% noticeable.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

May be dependent on setup, but I hear a clear difference and even spoke to some competitors who all did it. You'd never notice it rap music, but in metal...it's 100% noticeable.

Not noticeable at all. Kick drum is right on the dash. The blending is important. Maybe those competitors couldn't get that right.

 

[fly_marlin]

Not noticeable at all. Kick drum is right on the dash. The blending is important. Maybe those competitors couldn't get that right.

Not gonna argue with you, I hear what I hear. Whoever reads this thread can try it and if they hear a difference they can leave it. If not, they can just not worry about it.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

Do like me.. Hookup your headunit to the amplifier then to the speakers and leave it as is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

Forgot being perfect on timings its all about hearing the music!

Sent from my draconis using Tapatalk

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

May be dependent on setup, but I hear a clear difference and even spoke to some competitors who all did it. You'd never notice it rap music, but in metal...it's 100% noticeable.

Not possible unless your ears are fucked. Lower frequencies have a longer wave length, thus way less likely to be effected by time alignment.

Not gonna argue with you, I hear what I hear. Whoever reads this thread can try it and if they hear a difference they can leave it. If not, they can just not worry about it.

Nothing to argue. Science over your ears.

 

[fly_marlin]

I wasn't the one who noticed. I was in the car with a coworker playing a Metallica song. She went to music school and plays instruments, she asked why it sounded like the bass was trailing behind. I adjusted it, had her listen again and she said it sounded fine at that point. She doesn't know anything about car audio, TA, x-overs, etc.

Since you did point to science and because I am curious, what's our tolerance for delay in sub-frequencies before we notice it's behind and what's an average group delay in a ported enclosure?

 

[big scott]

Do like me.. Hookup your headunit to the amplifier then to the speakers and leave it as is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.
Forgot being perfect on timings its all about hearing the music!

Sent from my draconis using Tapatalk

there's no fun in that.

as most want loud but great sound also.

in order to get that you have to adjust things.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

The kick drum in most Metallica stuff is difficult. If you have to much output 50-70hz it will get pulled to the back. That's the blending thing

 

[The Camry]

May be dependent on setup, but I hear a clear difference and even spoke to some competitors who all did it. You'd never notice it rap music, but in metal...it's 100% noticeable.

yea. its edm. it doesnt matter but metal. it absolutely matters. ive even noticed a difference in T/A with tweeters but that was when i had them wayy wayyy off of what they shoulda been.

even high frequencies that are only supposed to be affected by how loud they are, are affected by T/A. Atleast in my car anyway. maybe its harmonics or some ****.