so is sundown worth the money

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

 

[RBarlow]

View attachment 30643

Sux but I get it though everything else is going up around you can't stay at the same level and either make less or go out of business this covid **** hurt this country much more then we are willing to admit it did.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

I will admit, the only sundown products I’ve owned have been from the yard sale LOL. I was very close to getting an amp from The Amp Lab though (refurb of course).

 

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

I will admit, the only sundown products I’ve owned have been from the yard sale LOL. I was very close to getting an amp from The Amp Lab though (refurb of course).

My X15 was B stock and there was a rub mark the size of a grain of rice on the surround. Well worth the $150 off. All my other Sundown subs were when Sundown was cheap back in 2011ish.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

It’s great for them but the yard sale used to be awesome but now they are so big, it’s always just subs and the surprise me items aren’t absolute steals like they once could be (if they even still do those).

 

[mastershake575]

I was simply stating if that was the case all things being equal then why spend more money just for the name you being snobby trying to make something more out of what I said then actually was stated if you have time to do that's that's on you

Me being snobby ? You're the one who literally told everybody "oh yeah you're wasting your money but if that's your thing then so be it" (that quote was the textbook example of being snarky).

All things being equal doesn't work when literally nothing is equal (boards that last 2-3x longer, being able to wire to .5ohm, and rated power at 12V vs 14.8 are all not comparable).

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

why pay money for the name

Implying that's all you're getting for the extra money.

View attachment 30643

This isn't just for Sundown. I've been trying to source some packaging for my work and cost to ship 20 foot container from China to me is over 9000$. For reference, last spring we shipped a 20 footer to South Korea for <2000$. It's to the point where it's about a wash buying """cheap""" packaging from China or buying from USA, sadly the USA manufacturers won't even get back to me with quotes for labeling services. """Free""" money seems really popular but at some point someone is going to have to go out and actually work again to produce something to spend it on. This whole thing isn't going to end well.

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

Implying that's all you're getting for the extra money.


This isn't just for Sundown. I've been trying to source some packaging for my work and cost to ship 20 foot container from China to me is over 9000$. For reference, last spring we shipped a 20 footer to South Korea for <2000$. It's to the point where it's about a wash buying """cheap""" packaging from China or buying from USA, sadly the USA manufacturers won't even get back to me with quotes for labeling services. """Free""" money seems really popular but at some point someone is going to have to go out and actually work again to produce something to spend it on. This whole thing isn't going to end well.

If you talk to Slo, everything is peaches and cream and people are getting what they “deserve”

 

[MattinMO]

My X15 was B stock and there was a rub mark the size of a grain of rice on the surround. Well worth the $150 off. All my other Sundown subs were when Sundown was cheap back in 2011ish.

I think if you pay retail for Sundown it comes with a tube of lube

 

[Clifff150 10+ year member]

Kind of turning into JL where they charge a premium that noobs will still pay. Still a great product but pricey

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Kind of turning into JL where they charge a premium that noobs will still pay. Still a great product but pricey

JL Audio has 335 employees, manufactures most of their product in house in the USA and has salaried engineers in house doing real R&D.

Not sure what Sundown is up to for employees, Google claims 17 and definitely no engineers or R&D in house.

Both have enormous commercial buildings with high overhead, have to set MSRP high enough that B&M dealers can make their vig for re-selling and handling most support, and also high enough to provide low hassle return/exchange/repair on broken products (many of which destroyed by incompetence or user error).

Even still, both are a wildly different business model than most that are 1-3 people and a garage/barn that'll tell you to piss off or make warranty claims a bunch of hoop jumpery and that are one meth addiction or one dud product run from China away from just disappearing.

Certainly both companies make a lot of money but this is more due to economies of scale than """overcharging""" for product. At the end of the day I bet a "brand" like Wolfram pockets more profit out of a Chinese full bridge 3K than Sundown sees out of "the same" amp from the same factory with a different logo on it.

 

[mastershake575]

JL Audio has 335 employees, manufactures most of their product in house in the USA and has salaried engineers in house doing real R&D.

Not sure what Sundown is up to for employees, Google claims 17 and definitely no engineers or R&D in house.

Both have enormous commercial buildings with high overhead, have to set MSRP high enough that B&M dealers can make their vig for re-selling and handling most support, and also high enough to provide low hassle return/exchange/repair on broken products (many of which destroyed by incompetence or user error).

Even still, both are a wildly different business model than most that are 1-3 people and a garage/barn that'll tell you to piss off or make warranty claims a bunch of hoop jumpery and that are one meth addiction or one dud product run from China away from just disappearing.

Certainly both companies make a lot of money but this is more due to economies of scale than """overcharging""" for product. At the end of the day I bet a "brand" like Wolfram pockets more profit out of a Chinese full bridge 3K than Sundown sees out of "the same" amp from the same factory with a different logo on it.

I'm going to add to this post because it's spot on

What I find funny is people who complain about the prices are the ones running daily setups (competition vehicles with $2,000+ worth of deadening, bracing, and electrical upgrades aren't complaining about the high end sundown products, not only does their budget allocate for it but they are paying to get a competition product).

The three sundown subs for daily (sa classic, E, and SD3) are all priced in between $140 and $230. All of their daily based amplifiers (four channel or monoblock) are $180 to $300

How in the hell are any of those prices a rip off or premium ? They're not, people are taking the enthusiast lines of brands like Digital Designs, Sundown, and JL and trying to apply it to non-competition vehicles.........

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

competition vehicles with $2,000+ worth of deadening, bracing, and electrical upgrades aren't complaining about the high end sundown products, not only does their budget allocate for it but they are paying to get a competition product

I'd wager that most folks in this category are NOT paying MSRP on much of what they own. By the time you're slinging around 5000$ for gear in your builds you're getting "team" prices from manufacturer or at least getting solid discounts from whatever local shop you're buying. Most businesses take care of the whales.

 

[mastershake575]

I'd wager that most folks in this category are NOT paying MSRP on much of what they own. By the time you're slinging around 5000$ for gear in your builds you're getting "team" prices from manufacturer or at least getting solid discounts from whatever local shop you're buying. Most businesses take care of the whales.

yeah that's true as well. Competition vehicles get discounts plus have allocated high budgets and then more mainstream/daily hardware as I pointed out is not expensive at all.

 

[RBarlow]

Can you post a pic of the dyno sheet? Just curious how they tested it (hz, certified/dynamic, etc)?

yeah i can do that for ya as soon as i figure out how i think i should be able take pic with phone and hopefully go from there to here