Senate passes 800 billion dollar stimulus without 1 member readind the actual bill!!!

[bunkerking09 10+ year member]

Hillary had enough of Bills shit apparently

omg lmao

 

[Freakshow 10+ year member]

Hillary had enough of Bills shit apparently

Who put the "Kick Me" sign on Obama's back?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

The stretching out for a kiss and puckering of the lips is just great //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

she'll be back

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Ugly means easy and will give it their all. Clinton is clever.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

"We have resources our government doesn't let us use."
Yes, but not enough to sustain the US until renewable energy networks are in place.

"I know factories have closed to move elsewhere."

So do I. Everyone knows that the US is not the producer it once was. All I'm asking is some sort of intellectual argument that can place the blame at the feet of NAFTA, specifically.

"Your questioning of EVERYTHING is more anecdotal...Is Canada it's own planet now?"

??? I should clarify that I don't question EVERYTHING....I do question unproven (or unprovable) assertions that are presented as fact.

Flip, I swear you spell Canada wrong every time.

We are not the producer we once were because of government, environmentalists, union corruption, and greed. Our country plays sides with MONEY not actual common sense. Corn ethanol is a prime example. Raising/using corn they way they are drives up the price of corn for an expensive less efficient fuel source. The toxins from fertilizers and insecticides pollute our water systems and raising corn in the same fields season after season damages the soil. They grow so much corn that is cuts down on wheat and soy, which in turn drives that price up. Farmers used to cycle which crops they grew to stop the soil break down.The actual production of ethanol is dirtier than coal or refining and burning normal gasoline. Yet ethanol is considered green?:laugh:Clean coal technology also does not exist in any workable solution as of yet. We could put a windmill in every yard and still it would only produce a fraction of the energy we need. Same with solar! If we improved our electrical grid we could gain 25% without adding anymore pollution as it would be a straight efficiency upgrade. This could have been done years ago but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO there is/was not any or as much money to be made in doing so as in other areas.

As far as dependence, if America goes down the world economy goes down with it because the world needs us to at least BUY their goods not to mention the goods we provide. We are the largest economy. So either side of the fence you want to take a stand on makes little to no difference because we either buy the worlds goods or they buy them from us. We also GIVE away money and food in good faith yet how much of that does the US get back? How many billions of dollars have other countries donated to Katrina and Ike victims? How much did we give to the countries struck by the tsunami? How much do we and have we given to Africa? From what I see that help we gave was not a loan. I think maybe a part of our country should maybe become as selfish as the rest of the world until we can at least afford to help. All the other countries would then complain about actually having more of a role in helping with the world. I don't mean that in a "bad" way but it does seem that always gets over looked. We are either the good guys or the bad guys and either way the world will take our money and not think twice or think different about it.

 

[mugen08 10+ year member]

Who put the "Kick Me" sign on Obama's back?
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Wow I never noticed that:laugh:

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

wow, the stock market loves Obama's stimulus bill this morning

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

wow, the stock market loves Obama's stimulus bill this morning

I dunno if it is that or Geitner.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

I dunno if it is that or Geitner.

He hasn't spoke yet has he? Guess we will see what that does...

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

wrong thread

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

He hasn't spoke yet has he? Guess we will see what that does...

He spoke last week but no details

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

We are not the producer we once were because of government, environmentalists, union corruption, and greed. Our country plays sides with MONEY not actual common sense. Corn ethanol is a prime example. Raising/using corn they way they are drives up the price of corn for an expensive less efficient fuel source. The toxins from fertilizers and insecticides pollute our water systems and raising corn in the same fields season after season damages the soil. They grow so much corn that is cuts down on wheat and soy, which in turn drives that price up. Farmers used to cycle which crops they grew to stop the soil break down.The actual production of ethanol is dirtier than coal or refining and burning normal gasoline. Yet ethanol is considered green?:laugh:Clean coal technology also does not exist in any workable solution as of yet. We could put a windmill in every yard and still it would only produce a fraction of the energy we need. Same with solar! If we improved our electrical grid we could gain 25% without adding anymore pollution as it would be a straight efficiency upgrade. This could have been done years ago but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO there is/was not any or as much money to be made in doing so as in other areas.

Our province received federal funding to create the first workable clean coal plant. We ended up cancelling the program because it didn't match our risk profile. Per ethanol, I agree. Don't rule out all future technology just because it isn't working now, though; the reason I used the word "network" is because green technologies don't match well with our infrastructure at the moment. The move to renewable energy is essential, in my opinion, for long-term stability on basically every front.

As far as dependence, if America goes down the world economy goes down with it because the world needs us to at least BUY their goods not to mention the goods we provide. We are the largest economy. So either side of the fence you want to take a stand on makes little to no difference because we either buy the worlds goods or they buy them from us.

I agree, but keep in mind I'm not the one saying that NAFTA was the cause of the economic downturn. I'm not the one saying that the US can survive without Canada (which is not true, or at least extremely stupid). Mind you, our requirements of the US are largely economical. When it comes down to sheer resources per capita, we are less dependent on external sources than the US is.

We also GIVE away money and food in good faith yet how much of that does the US get back? How many billions of dollars have other countries donated to Katrina and Ike victims? How much did we give to the countries struck by the tsunami? How much do we and have we given to Africa? From what I see that help we gave was not a loan. I think maybe a part of our country should maybe become as selfish as the rest of the world until we can at least afford to help. All the other countries would then complain about actually having more of a role in helping with the world. I don't mean that in a "bad" way but it does seem that always gets over looked. We are either the good guys or the bad guys and either way the world will take our money and not think twice or think different about it.

This is the prototypical, self-centered American viewpoint.

First of all, let's realize what we are comparing. The 2004 Tsunami killed over 200,000 people, whereas Hurricane Katrina killed less than 2,000. The countries affected by the Tsunami have substantially less power and less money than the US does. Trying to compare these incidents 1:1 is simply ludicrous.

Also, I'm sure you recall that there was a lot of aid offered to the US for Katrina that was turned down. Also, several countries in Indonesia were unable to contribute aid to Katrina because they were still recovering from the Tsunami.

There are countries everywhere doing what they can to help the less fortunate. Keep in mind that the US is, by and large, not the less fortunate. You may think you're the sole hero, looking out for everyone, but that's simply not true. For example, those "evil" Chinese have contributed more money and done more to feed Africa than anyone else, and this is also ignoring the harm the US has caused to Africa by using subsidies for its food aid programs (this last part is still a bit debateable, but at least a few groups like Care agree).

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

So they are now fully acknowledging that the plan of the stimulus package is to provide a small and steady income boost to increase spending slowly. This is a bit disconcerting because the consensus among pro-stimulus economists is that it needs to be a lot of money as early as possible. The concern is apparently that a large check would be used for debt or saving, rather than for spending. If we eliminated the debt that Americans have, it seems to me like that will open up more intelligent spending (ie. spending from your savings account, not spending from your cc). Every day this shit looks worse...

 

[mazzasec 5,000+ posts]

As long as gas stays cheap. I dont give a **** what Obama does.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Our province received federal funding to create the first workable clean coal plant. We ended up cancelling the program because it didn't match our risk profile. Per ethanol, I agree. Don't rule out all future technology just because it isn't working now, though; the reason I used the word "network" is because green technologies don't match well with our infrastructure at the moment. The move to renewable energy is essential, in my opinion, for long-term stability on basically every frontAnyway you want to cut it Canaduh depends on US more...If not PROVE IT as I already looked up all I need to see there

I agree, but keep in mind I'm not the one saying that NAFTA was the cause of the economic downturn. I'm not the one saying that the US can survive without Canada (which is not true, or at least extremely stupid). Mind you, our requirements of the US are largely economical. When it comes down to sheer resources per capita, we are less dependent on external sources than the US is.

NAFTA just made it easier and in my area losing easily 5k jobs proves my point and those jobs went directly to another country. Not every state in the US relies on automotive as other states. Michigan, Ohio and Indiana depended on automotive

This is the prototypical, self-centered American viewpoint.

First of all, let's realize what we are comparing. The 2004 Tsunami killed over 200,000 people, whereas Hurricane Katrina killed less than 2,000. The countries affected by the Tsunami have substantially less power and less money than the US does. Trying to compare these incidents 1:1 is simply ludicrous.

Also, I'm sure you recall that there was a lot of aid offered to the US for Katrina that was turned down. Also, several countries in Indonesia were unable to contribute aid to Katrina because they were still recovering from the Tsunami.

There are countries everywhere doing what they can to help the less fortunate. Keep in mind that the US is, by and large, not the less fortunate. You may think you're the sole hero, looking out for everyone, but that's simply not true. For example, those "evil" Chinese have contributed more money and done more to feed Africa than anyone else, and this is also ignoring the harm the US has caused to Africa by using subsidies for its food aid programs (this last part is still a bit debateable, but at least a few groups like Care agree).

Self centered? Aid I am talking is donated for food and humanitarian needs not weapons trade or loans and it is not based off of GNP figures. Until the crap hit the fan we were getting ready to send 85 billion to africa over 15 years. I also hardly call taking care of your own until you are able to better take care of others self centered. It doesn't do the world 1 bit of good to delaying economic recovery. The way you paint the picture America is ****ed if they do or don't. My whole way of thinking is help if we can, if not then we need to take care of OURSELVES. Let me put it another way, would you try to run a marathon on 2 broken legs or would you wait until you were healed? If you had 4 kids you couldn't afford would you have more kids?..ect ect ect.