Prototype BM v2 has arrived at SI for testing!

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

A wise wee-man once said...
If the new JL shallow mount woofer sucks so bad why on earth would they waste the tens of thousands of dollars of R&D and tooling all of the new components for it including the voice coil, spiders, basket, etc. when they could have done what he did and had the exact same woofer from china for next to nothing and let the internet nut swingers like yourself hype the heck out of it and pronounce it god, and have zilch in tooling.

Perhaps there's a reason JL didn't run to china for off the shelf parts?

There's a reason they spent all that money in tooling. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

/Nerd Tennis.

nG

It's nice to sit behind your desk and announce that we have "zilch in tooling", but that just goes to show you how little you know. Can you tell me how you know this? How much have we spent in tooling? With a comment like yours, you've got me curious as to how much we've actually spent! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The Mag's are shipping soon and the BM's will be quite a ways off. Sure I post pictures of prototypes on my forum, but if it makes people that mad maybe I should hold off on posting any pictures, sending out any woofers for reviews, or anything like that until production actually hits and/or arrives. Sound good? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

As for the comment about the TW5 vs. the BM, mainly there to stir up controversy, lol. What better way to get a product noticed than to do that. I also think that JL spends the money because they can, not because they need to, and because that way they can have all of the patents and their subs all look unique and they can say they are engineered better blah blah blah when in actuality they could have used of the shelf components and have accomplished the same goal.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

It's nice to sit behind your desk and announce that we have "zilch in tooling", but that just goes to show you how little you know. Can you tell me how you know this? How much have we spent in tooling? With a comment like yours, you've got me curious as to how much we've actually spent! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I'd bet a dollar is a far cry from what Manville & company have spent with their shallow mount, which seems to be a very promising woofer. Alot of real engineering and thought went into that one...seems to be a very short wound say 5" coil, 9" spiders or so? Or is that a 12 with 10" spiders? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

But i suppose it's par for the course for the fan base to cast stones at the one at the top of the hill, while wearing a blindfold.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

idont care if you listen to me. i also think all the fi's ive owned sounded like shit a q with a different spider pack isnt going to change it up

You'd be suprised...i guess the iasca judges don't know what they are listening to lol.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I'd bet a dollar is a far cry from what Manville & company have spent with their shallow mount, which seems to be a very promising woofer. Alot of real engineering and thought went into that one...seems to be a very short wound say 5" coil, 9" spiders or so? Or is that a 12 with 10" spiders? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
But i suppose it's par for the course for the fan base to cast stones at the one at the top of the hill, while wearing a blindfold.

I don't think Nick is saying he spent as much as JL, or even a fraction - but that he didn't just browse through a catalog, there was some tooling involved here. The BM design is pretty cool if you get to hold one in your hands - I saw it over the 4th of July weekend.

The JL driver is very cool too - I think bose just got really excited about the BM.

Performance per dollar the BM is quite likely a better value - but IIRC, the JL is shallower if one really needs *that* low of a depth. I think alot of JLs money went into getting that last fraction of an inch less depth (eg: their crazy looking cage structure, etc). It is a pretty sweet piece of engineering.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

good thing i care what they think last time i checked, i sure bought woofers for ME to listen to. how silly of me

Agreeing with you man, you like what you like for whatever reason it is.

Personally i can't stand the sound of a 3.4" long coil 'uber woofer' or the LMS technology...don't like it at all //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

I'd bet a dollar is a far cry from what Manville & company have spent with their shallow mount, which seems to be a very promising woofer. Alot of real engineering and thought went into that one...seems to be a very short wound say 5" coil, 9" spiders or so? Or is that a 12 with 10" spiders? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
But i suppose it's par for the course for the fan base to cast stones at the one at the top of the hill, while wearing a blindfold.

So now we're comparing tooling cost? I didn't think that's what we were doing in this thread, and I didn't say anything about the % of tooling cost spent with cone company vs. another. At least I don't think I did.

A lot of engineering did go into the Tw5. It also seems short to say that a 5" coil, 9" spider driver is definitely going to be better than a 2.5" coil, 10" spider driver. If that's the case, when are you guys at Fi coming out with a 6" coil, 11" spider offering?

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

I don't think Nick is saying he spent as much as JL, or even a fraction - but that he didn't just browse through a catalog, there was some tooling involved here. The BM design is pretty cool if you get to hold one in your hands - I saw it over the 4th of July weekend.
The JL driver is very cool too - I think bose just got really excited about the BM.

Performance per dollar the BM is quite likely a better value - but IIRC, the JL is shallower if one really needs *that* low of a depth. I think alot of JLs money went into getting that last fraction of an inch less depth (eg: their crazy looking cage structure, etc). It is a pretty sweet piece of engineering.

No doubt about that man, definitely give credit where credit is due. Very very intelligent //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

So now we're comparing tooling cost? I didn't think that's what we were doing in this thread, and I didn't say anything about the % of tooling cost spent with cone company vs. another. At least I don't think I did.
A lot of engineering did go into the Tw5. It also seems short to say that a 5" coil, 9" spider driver is definitely going to be better than a 2.5" coil, 10" spider driver. If that's the case, when are you guys at Fi coming out with a 6" coil, 11" spider offering?

You said something about "you dont know what we have in tooling..." So I was commenting in regards to that. Regardless, at the end of the day I don't care.

If you want to measure how big my coil is and diameter of spiders we can do that. Granted larger diameter spiders (conventional) cause issues...

Bigger coils aren't a problem when they are designed properly, 11" coil isn't an issue...it's been done...

Something about ~59 liters of linear displacement out of a single woofer cone... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You should know better than to doubt me with it comes to excursion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

So it's a good thing our 10" spider isn't a conventional 10" spider. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

And I actually said nothing about doubting you and excursion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

...my comment to Noah was becuase it's so far out of the ballpark it's almost comical. I never said that we have spent more than "x" company, or anything like that. It's just childish to sit back and make completely false statements about how much a particular company has spent when you have absolutely no clue how much they have or have not spent.

 

[Idrinksalot]

They should have color options //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif that would be GRRRRREAT

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

Woah, I definitely did not mean to start a Fi vs. Stereo Integrity war here, lol. I also think it is funny that we have 2 Nicks arguing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif. Like I said, I was trying to stir up controversy with my statement, looks like I succeeded, lol. Anyway, back to business.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

idont care if you listen to me. i also think all the fi's ive owned sounded like shit a q with a different spider pack isnt going to change it up

The Mag v3 was out before the Q, so shouldn't the Q be a Mag with a different spider pack? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

and i heard a q before a mag. that negates that silly little statement.

There are more differences between a Mag and a Q than the spider pack actually, but if you don't like either you don't, as always with audio stuff it's personal opinion.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

i know. chrome and a dustcap

Actually different top plates and top plate geometry as well.