Noob question about active crossover and amp settings

[jwark]

I just set the high/low pass filter to off on the amp if I'm using the active crossover on my pioneer 80prs right? I know that seems pretty obvious but I just wanted to make sure.

I'm so close to finishing my first complete system build!

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[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

yes

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

I'm just letting you know ahead of time you're about to open some new can of worms.. Prepare to be deal with active crossover points, slopes, level matching individual gains, speaker placement, time alignment, EQ, and so on..

 

[jwark]

I'm just letting you know ahead of time you're about to open some new can of worms.. Prepare to be deal with active crossover points, slopes, level matching individual gains, speaker placement, time alignment, EQ, and so on..

ok well I want to learn but I admit I know nothing about those things. I just installed a complete audio system from factory with zero knowledge on how to do it so I'm not completely stupid I think! Maybe I could take it to a local car audio shop and ask for a brief 101, I've bought enough junk from them so maybe they will help me. I understand EQ pretty well. Time alignment has an auto setting on it I believe. Slopes volume? I probably don't understand slopes. Know nothing about matching individual gains. As far as speaker placement I'm very dead set on using the factory placements, I don't want it to be noticeable that I have a nice stereo system. From the factory I have tweeters in my dashboard, though so that might help because they're not by the mids? Does it really matter that much?

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

ok well I want to learn but I admit I know nothing about those things. I just installed a complete audio system from factory with zero knowledge on how to do it so I'm not completely stupid I think! Maybe I could take it to a local car audio shop and ask for a brief 101, I've bought enough junk from them so maybe they will help me. I understand EQ pretty well. Time alignment has an auto setting on it I believe. Slopes volume? I probably don't understand slopes. Know nothing about matching individual gains. As far as speaker placement I'm very dead set on using the factory placements, I don't want it to be noticeable that I have a nice stereo system. From the factory I have tweeters in my dashboard, though so that might help because they're not by the mids? Does it really matter that much?

I like your enthusiasm. I doubt that the shop will sit down and show you the ropes to tuning an active setup without paying them. It is pretty time consuming that's why. You can do it at home by yourself for the most part if you do your research but a lot of it is personal preference. It's best to understand what each thing does by actually sitting in your car and listening to it while you change one thing to another. I've never had good luck with auto time alignment so if you decide to use it, use it as a start and go from there. Same applies for Auto EQ. Factory speaker locations are fine but do you have sound deadening inside your doors and seal it up good? That's very crucial to getting the cleanest sound out of your mids. The farther the speakers are away from each other, the more you have to time align and harder to blend. Crossover slopes are pretty important when dealing with active speakers because it will make a speaker sound more narrower/sharp or wider/smooth blending. For tweeter and mid, I would recommend starting at -12db/oct slope to get a good start. If you feel you need to sharpen up the tweeter or something, then move it to -18db or -24db slope for a much sharper sound. It will bring more detail but it will also start to sound more separated the sharper you go. For subs, I usually like to use a -24db slope because otherwise it will sound a little muddy if it plays too high. Crossover points will kinda depend on what equipment you have and how you have everything setup. Ideally you do not want to have a big gap between each speaker so it doesn't sound lacking in one area. For example, if you put your sub lpf to 80 hz @ -24db/oct then put your mids hpf close to there. Move them up and down to see what works best for you. Tweeter hpf can be anywhere from 2.5khz to 4khz depending on your taste and if your tweeters can handle lower frequencies well. Setting your gains for mids and highs individually can be a bit frustrating compared to a passive setup because you can easily make your system sound worse if you don't know what you're doing.

Can you list your equipment here and what other work you have done to your car? speakers, subs, amps, HU, electrical, etc.. How did you set your gains for everything so far?

 

[fly_marlin]

I like your enthusiasm. I doubt that the shop will sit down and show you the ropes to tuning an active setup without paying them. It is pretty time consuming that's why. You can do it at home by yourself for the most part if you do your research but a lot of it is personal preference. It's best to understand what each thing does by actually sitting in your car and listening to it while you change one thing to another. I've never had good luck with auto time alignment so if you decide to use it, use it as a start and go from there. Same applies for Auto EQ. Factory speaker locations are fine but do you have sound deadening inside your doors and seal it up good? That's very crucial to getting the cleanest sound out of your mids. The farther the speakers are away from each other, the more you have to time align and harder to blend. Crossover slopes are pretty important when dealing with active speakers because it will make a speaker sound more narrower/sharp or wider/smooth blending. For tweeter and mid, I would recommend starting at -12db/oct slope to get a good start. If you feel you need to sharpen up the tweeter or something, then move it to -18db or -24db slope for a much sharper sound. It will bring more detail but it will also start to sound more separated the sharper you go. For subs, I usually like to use a -24db slope because otherwise it will sound a little muddy if it plays too high. Crossover points will kinda depend on what equipment you have and how you have everything setup. Ideally you do not want to have a big gap between each speaker so it doesn't sound lacking in one area. For example, if you put your sub lpf to 80 hz @ -24db/oct then put your mids hpf close to there. Move them up and down to see what works best for you. Tweeter hpf can be anywhere from 2.5khz to 4khz depending on your taste and if your tweeters can handle lower frequencies well. Setting your gains for mids and highs individually can be a bit frustrating compared to a passive setup because you can easily make your system sound worse if you don't know what you're doing.
Can you list your equipment here and what other work you have done to your car? speakers, subs, amps, HU, electrical, etc.. How did you set your gains for everything so far?

Mostly right, but the stuff about x-over slopes is a bit off. Having a sharper slope on an x-over doesn't make anything play muddy. In fact, almost the opposite is true. For example, if you have a midwoofer that sounds a bit muddy down low and you have it crossed at 120Hz at 12db, crossing it at 18db or 24db may in fact make it sound clearer as it now plays less bass. At that, it can also handle a little more power. You have to play with the x-over points as well, for example moving it to 150Hz at 12db rather than 120Hz at 24db. This is why SQ folks are so concerned about picking drivers that can play well across a wider spectrum. You don't want to cross your sub much higher than 80Hz, so you would want to have a mid you can cross at 120Hz or even lower so it can pick up right where the sub left off. But if your mid is lacking in that range, you'll be stuck between having some muddiness or just lack of music in that range. Same goes with mid/tweeter pairing.

If your speakers originally came with passive x-overs, find out how they were crossed and use that as a starting point on your HU. In my opinion though, the biggest gain for you would be the ability to TA tweeters and mids separately. As for x-overs, most well made passive x-overs already blend the mid/tweeter together pretty well.

 

[jwark]

I like your enthusiasm. I doubt that the shop will sit down and show you the ropes to tuning an active setup without paying them. It is pretty time consuming that's why. You can do it at home by yourself for the most part if you do your research but a lot of it is personal preference. It's best to understand what each thing does by actually sitting in your car and listening to it while you change one thing to another. I've never had good luck with auto time alignment so if you decide to use it, use it as a start and go from there. Same applies for Auto EQ. Factory speaker locations are fine but do you have sound deadening inside your doors and seal it up good? That's very crucial to getting the cleanest sound out of your mids. The farther the speakers are away from each other, the more you have to time align and harder to blend. Crossover slopes are pretty important when dealing with active speakers because it will make a speaker sound more narrower/sharp or wider/smooth blending. For tweeter and mid, I would recommend starting at -12db/oct slope to get a good start. If you feel you need to sharpen up the tweeter or something, then move it to -18db or -24db slope for a much sharper sound. It will bring more detail but it will also start to sound more separated the sharper you go. For subs, I usually like to use a -24db slope because otherwise it will sound a little muddy if it plays too high. Crossover points will kinda depend on what equipment you have and how you have everything setup. Ideally you do not want to have a big gap between each speaker so it doesn't sound lacking in one area. For example, if you put your sub lpf to 80 hz @ -24db/oct then put your mids hpf close to there. Move them up and down to see what works best for you. Tweeter hpf can be anywhere from 2.5khz to 4khz depending on your taste and if your tweeters can handle lower frequencies well. Setting your gains for mids and highs individually can be a bit frustrating compared to a passive setup because you can easily make your system sound worse if you don't know what you're doing.
Can you list your equipment here and what other work you have done to your car? speakers, subs, amps, HU, electrical, etc.. How did you set your gains for everything so far?

Hey thanks for the advice.

My Gear:

HU: Pioneer DEH-80PRS

FRONT: JBL P660C 6 1/2"" (160mm) 2-way component system

REAR: none

SUB: SoundQubed HDS212-D4 wired for 2 ohms

MONO AMP: P1000.1 - Precision Power

4 CHANNEL AMP: Precision Power P900.4

SUB BOX: Custom from CSCStang

4 gauge power wire to amps. Did big 3 upgrade with 0 gauge. 12 gauge speaker wire that the shop said was the best they had, very expensive. Some kicker RCAs that cost way too much. Think they were 50 bucks each.

I don't know what I'm doing with the gains. I've messed around with them a bit but I've spent so much time lately trying to eliminate this horrible alternator whine in speakers or whatever it is. Gain on mids and tweeters is maxxed out. I know that's bad if I turn it up too much it could blow my speakers probably. It gets bad clipping on the mids currently, I think it's called clipping, it sounds like crap when something gets really loud on them, like when the toms are hit on the drums. Probably need to tune the gains. Sound deadening I want to do eventually too. I'm wanting to get around to digging into that but like I said spending every hour on this stupid alternator whine.

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Mostly right, but the stuff about x-over slopes is a bit off. Having a sharper slope on an x-over doesn't make anything play muddy. In fact, almost the opposite is true. For example, if you have a midwoofer that sounds a bit muddy down low and you have it crossed at 120Hz at 12db, crossing it at 18db or 24db may in fact make it sound clearer as it now plays less bass. At that, it can also handle a little more power. You have to play with the x-over points as well, for example moving it to 150Hz at 12db rather than 120Hz at 24db. This is why SQ folks are so concerned about picking drivers that can play well across a wider spectrum. You don't want to cross your sub much higher than 80Hz, so you would want to have a mid you can cross at 120Hz or even lower so it can pick up right where the sub left off. But if your mid is lacking in that range, you'll be stuck between having some muddiness or just lack of music in that range. Same goes with mid/tweeter pairing.
If your speakers originally came with passive x-overs, find out how they were crossed and use that as a starting point on your HU. In my opinion though, the biggest gain for you would be the ability to TA tweeters and mids separately. As for x-overs, most well made passive x-overs already blend the mid/tweeter together pretty well.

I meant to say that shallower slopes than -24db tends to make things more muddy because the sub will play too high. Not the other way around. I agree with your statement about using the factory xover points as a starting point and go from there. That's what I did for my speakers and it worked out better than anything else I could do. IMO active sounds way better than passive if done right. Much more efficient on power and just less distortion overall. Not saying passive can't sound good, just that active can take things to the next level.

The hardest part about a 2 way + sub is the lack of a strong midbass response. That's why I'm contemplating a 3 way active for my next setup and sh*t load of deadener. My previous car all deadened up did well with midbass even for a 6.5", but I still want more so I think a separate 8" on each door will do me justice. So far I'm pretty set on the JLZR800. If you have any input on it or any other good 8" midbass driver let me know.

 

[jwark]

I've actually am returning this infernal 80prs and really don't want another one. Is there any other good head unit with active crossovers because I do not want to have this problem again. I did not hot swap any rcas or do anything to it while it was plugged in and it seems the pico fuse blew. Do not want to go through this again.

 

[fly_marlin]

Clarion CZ702.

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Hey thanks for the advice.
My Gear:

HU: Pioneer DEH-80PRS

FRONT: JBL P660C 6 1/2"" (160mm) 2-way component system

REAR: none

SUB: SoundQubed HDS212-D4 wired for 2 ohms

MONO AMP: P1000.1 - Precision Power

4 CHANNEL AMP: Precision Power P900.4

SUB BOX: Custom from CSCStang

4 gauge power wire to amps. Did big 3 upgrade with 0 gauge. 12 gauge speaker wire that the shop said was the best they had, very expensive. Some kicker RCAs that cost way too much. Think they were 50 bucks each.

I don't know what I'm doing with the gains. I've messed around with them a bit but I've spent so much time lately trying to eliminate this horrible alternator whine in speakers or whatever it is. Gain on mids and tweeters is maxxed out. I know that's bad if I turn it up too much it could blow my speakers probably. It gets bad clipping on the mids currently, I think it's called clipping, it sounds like crap when something gets really loud on them, like when the toms are hit on the drums. Probably need to tune the gains. Sound deadening I want to do eventually too. I'm wanting to get around to digging into that but like I said spending every hour on this stupid alternator whine.

You have a good start spending wise except for your wires and RCA. Could've gotten them much cheaper online from other brands like SHCA or KnuKonceptz. So.. you still have alternator whine? I thought it was resolved by replacing your RCA's? Are you sure your ground for your amps are solid? Make sure it's not loose and make sure you scrape off any paint or residue off the metal chassis. Pictures of it would help. It could be other factors but this is the first place I would check.

Umm.. you're not supposed to max out your gains for active speakers. Only passive setups you give it all the juice you can give it and a lot of it is lost energy. Yes, you are definitely clipping. Clipping happens when you have your gain knob way too high. You are very likely to blow your speakers this way. This can also make your alternator whine way louder than it is. You have a very powerful 4 channel amp, you shouldn't even need to use that much power. Like I said, I think you're opening a new can of worms by going active. If I were you, I would probably put your passive crossover back on and try to make it sound the best you can before you blow something. If you really wanna learn, then you better do more reading on the net and/or ask more questions.

Where is your listening volume at on your HU right now? If you're only using like half your max volume or less, then you definitely have your gains up way too high. Since you have a lot of power on tap for speakers, I would just set your tweeter and mids gain to the absolute minimum, and then slowly move your mids gain up until you feel it matches the tweeter. Make sure to put your volume up to about 3/4 of your max volume and set your crossover points first then play around with slopes afterwards. Focus on making your front stage sound the best you can before you even introduce the sub into the sound. You can either use a DMM to set a target RMS for your sub or a SMD DD-1. Why didn't you just buy a D2 ohm sub and wire it to 1 ohm? Your sub amp is 1 ohm stable. Could've gotten more power out of it.

 

[jwark]

You have a good start spending wise except for your wires and RCA. Could've gotten them much cheaper online from other brands like SHCA or KnuKonceptz. So.. you still have alternator whine? I thought it was resolved by replacing your RCA's? Are you sure your ground for your amps are solid? Make sure it's not loose and make sure you scrape off any paint or residue off the metal chassis. Pictures of it would help. It could be other factors but this is the first place I would check.
Umm.. you're not supposed to max out your gains for active speakers. Only passive setups you give it all the juice you can give it and a lot of it is lost energy. Yes, you are definitely clipping. Clipping happens when you have your gain knob way too high. You are very likely to blow your speakers this way. This can also make your alternator whine way louder than it is. You have a very powerful 4 channel amp, you shouldn't even need to use that much power. Like I said, I think you're opening a new can of worms by going active. If I were you, I would probably put your passive crossover back on and try to make it sound the best you can before you blow something. If you really wanna learn, then you better do more reading on the net and/or ask more questions.

Where is your listening volume at on your HU right now? If you're only using like half your max volume or less, then you definitely have your gains up way too high. Since you have a lot of power on tap for speakers, I would just set your tweeter and mids gain to the absolute minimum, and then slowly move your mids gain up until you feel it matches the tweeter. Make sure to put your volume up to about 3/4 of your max volume and set your crossover points first then play around with slopes afterwards. Focus on making your front stage sound the best you can before you even introduce the sub into the sound. You can either use a DMM to set a target RMS for your sub or a SMD DD-1. Why didn't you just buy a D2 ohm sub and wire it to 1 ohm? Your sub amp is 1 ohm stable. Could've gotten more power out of it.

I don't know I didn't know what I was doing. Really regretting trying to do any of it to be honest. Wish I would have just paid someone to do it. I've put in like 80 hours so far and everything is all jacked up. People gave me bad advice as well. Seems like so many people don't know much about car stereos and think they do. I ran the build by many people and everyone said it was great, no one mentioned I could run at 1 ohm.

 

[fly_marlin]

I don't know I didn't know what I was doing. Really regretting trying to do any of it to be honest. Wish I would have just paid someone to do it. I've put in like 80 hours so far and everything is all jacked up.

How jacked up? Think someone can just make it neater or would they need to redo the whole 9 yards?

 

[jwark]

How jacked up? Think someone can just make it neater or would they need to redo the whole 9 yards?

I'm very proud of the wiring job I did and the way I mounted all the speakers.

Jacked up parts = alternator whine and now you told me I could run 1 ohm subs too which irritates me because I ran this build by many people and they all said it was great.

 

[fly_marlin]

I'm very proud of the wiring job I did and the way I mounted all the speakers.
Jacked up parts = alternator whine and now you told me I could run 1 ohm subs too which irritates me because I ran this build by many people and they all said it was great.

Sorry, I'm not 100% clear on the 1 ohm sub deal. What's the situation there?