Newbie - Help w System Design?

[Kor 10+ year member]

Hi I'm a Newbie!

Been wanting to change out my car audio system (stock) for a long time. I don't want to add too much weight to the car, but I can't stand how bad it sounds right now (and the audio doesn't go loud either).

Factory system looks like this:

Dashboard: 2 x 0.7" tweeters

Dashboard: 1x 2.8 in. mid-range (center)

Door: 2x 4" mid-range

Door: 2x 8" low-range

Rear: 2x 4" mid-range

Want to keep my headunit, and upgrade speakers and amp for some clear, loud sound.

Not sure if I should:

- Ditch the center?

- Ditch the rear speakers?

- Run 3 way speakers in the doors/dash

- Run 2 way in the doors/dash and ditch the extra speakers?

- Bother with a sub in the hatch?

Fewer speakers means more money for the ones I buy, and less weight... but I'm worried that the door locations won't do much to fill the cabin with clear sound, without the rear or centers.

What would YOU do? Never bought amps before, worried that they will be very heavy.

Click to read more...

 

[bustaplz 10+ year member]

I'm no expert, but since nobody else has posted, I'll try to help out.

- Ditch the center?

- Ditch the rear speakers?

I think most people on here will say ditch the center channel. Unless you watch a lot of DVD's you won't use 5.1 surround and amping a center channel adds complexity. If you don't have people riding in the rear, don't bother with replacing the rear mid range speakers.

- Run 3 way speakers in the doors/dash

- Run 2 way in the doors/dash and ditch the extra speakers?

Your speaker sizes are a bit odd, but I would try to run a nice set of 2-way components up front in place of the 8" woofers and the tweeters. You could probably just run those, off of an amp of course, and leave the rest of the speakers on headunit power or ditch them.

- Bother with a sub in the hatch?

By all means you should 'bother' with a sub in the hatch. You don't need to take up a whole hatch or run 2kw to a sub to get the benefits. Adding a dedicated speaker to reproduce bass frequencies will improve your sound quality as much as replacing all of the speakers in the car. I don't know what your space limitations are, but it sounds like you want to keep the car light and somewhat clean. Think about a single 10" subwoofer sealed, a setup like that wouldn't require much room at all and would have enough output to matter.

As far as amps and weight go, I'm running 1,240wrms. That's two amps, a 4 channel and a monoblock for my subs. They are actually very heavy as far as amps go(atleast in my opinion) and still they probably only add about 20lbs to my vehicle. Another couple pounds for my power wire, ground wire, power and ground distribution blocks and RCA's. Let's say another 20lbs for modest subwoofer and box.

You didn't say what vehicle this is going in, so I can't say how hard it would be to add in an amp or replace the one you have now. If you post that information, maybe I or someone more wise(everyone!) can help you determine how difficult the upgrade would be.

Hope this helps at least a little bit!

 

[aworldcollision 10+ year member]

Look into OEM integration peices.

What kind of car is it?

Put a sub in, yes, they're fun

Setting up speaker locations is real inportant so I'm loathe to suggest a bad option. I have no idea where these things are.

I don't believe in newbies with more than 2-way + sub

Research. That's what I'd start doing now.

If I had it to do over again I'd look at cheaper amps with better power management like PDX's or Zapco's. Don't underestimate the powerful sound of clean power. Get ONE PAIR of high quality comps and ALOT of power for your mids+ highs....I mean ALOT

I don't feel the same need to add thousands of watts of bass so look around on that, I'll dissuade you from being a basshead and you may not want that.

A cool option may be looking into the older P series monoblocks by Rockford Fosgate. They are full range A/B. Clean 300ish watts from one of those. One on each side would give greater power and seperation than a very high end amp. These things can be had on the bay for around $100 each or less.

Now none of this...is what I'd do, per se', but it would be a pretty cool way to go.

 

[bustaplz 10+ year member]

Look into OEM integration peices. What kind of car is it?

Put a sub in, yes, they're fun

Setting up speaker locations is real inportant so I'm loathe to suggest a bad option. I have no idea where these things are.

I don't believe in newbies with more than 2-way + sub

Research. That's what I'd start doing now.

If I had it to do over again I'd look at cheaper amps with better power management like PDX's or Zapco's. Don't underestimate the powerful sound of clean power. Get ONE PAIR of high quality comps and ALOT of power for your mids+ highs....I mean ALOT

I don't feel the same need to add thousands of watts of bass so look around on that, I'll dissuade you from being a basshead and you may not want that.

A cool option may be looking into the older P series monoblocks by Rockford Fosgate. They are full range A/B. Clean 300ish watts from one of those. One on each side would give greater power and seperation than a very high end amp. These things can be had on the bay for around $100 each or less.

Now none of this...is what I'd do, per se', but it would be a pretty cool way to go.

This man seems to know his stuff. He's right about getting a lot of power for mids and highs. I'm running 160w to a set of comps and 160w to a set of coax's and it just isn't quite enough. If(when) I do it again I'll be looking at component sets that handle 150w per channel.

 

[aworldcollision 10+ year member]

This man seems to know his stuff. He's right about getting a lot of power for mids and highs. I'm running 160w to a set of comps and 160w to a set of coax's and it just isn't quite enough. If(when) I do it again I'll be looking at component sets that handle 150w per channel.

Or 150 watts EACH DRIVER

 

[Kor 10+ year member]

Hi Everyone! Thank you in advance for the already helpful advice.

I noticed some companies sell 3 way components that would seem to fit, E.g. Focal 165.VR3 or CDT 642 Not better than a 2 way component? Simple is maybe better for me?

My car is a Porsche Cayman and although it is a fine car to drive, the acoustics inside are terrible. The car is tiny and cramped so the speakers do not have good positions. Tweeters high up on the dash, mid-ranges are low on the doors. I just want to do the best I can with stock speaker locations.

Is it bad to have too much power to the components? Should they be rated to handle the same as my amp puts out? Less? More?

Thanks to your advice I am leaning towards a 2 way component set, plus a 2 channel amp (150 w/ch @ 4ohm) plus a 10" sub and a monoblock amp for the sub.

Lastly I have a question. For a 2 way or 3 way component package that comes with a crossover. Do I need 1 channel of amplification for each side (2 channel amp) or 1 channel of amplification for each speaker (4 channel amp for 2-way components, 6 channels for 3-way components).

 

[Kor 10+ year member]

Oh also can I get away with an 8" sub in such a small car. I'm not a bass-head. Don't really want big bass, just musical and loud sound overall.

 

[aworldcollision 10+ year member]

Hi Everyone! Thank you in advance for the already helpful advice.
I noticed some companies sell 3 way components that would seem to fit, E.g. Focal 165.VR3 or CDT 642 Not better than a 2 way component? Simple is maybe better for me?

My car is a Porsche Cayman and although it is a fine car to drive, the acoustics inside are terrible. The car is tiny and cramped so the speakers do not have good positions. Tweeters high up on the dash, mid-ranges are low on the doors. I just want to do the best I can with stock speaker locations.

Is it bad to have too much power to the components? Should they be rated to handle the same as my amp puts out? Less? More?

Thanks to your advice I am leaning towards a 2 way component set, plus a 2 channel amp (150 w/ch @ 4ohm) plus a 10" sub and a monoblock amp for the sub.

Lastly I have a question. For a 2 way or 3 way component package that comes with a crossover. Do I need 1 channel of amplification for each side (2 channel amp) or 1 channel of amplification for each speaker (4 channel amp for 2-way components, 6 channels for 3-way components).

I would have laved to fit a 3 way 9'' Elate set from Morel which, yes, you could fit.

3 way is very hard to tune corectly becaus of the relaionship of one driver to another. Because of phasing issues and arrival time issues, 2 way plus sub seems to create a more believeable stage..which is important. I've had very good luck using Audyssey to tune the center channel using one ofthe sub woofer output. If you were to have a center channel and massiver amounts of tuning, you'd be amazed of the things you could accomplish...WITH MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF POWER!!! to answer that other question

So...decide. Minimalist approach like most. 2-way plus sub.

Complicated but with lots of tuning such as an Alpine h650 or 701 for self-tuning.

I love my center channel but I couldn't have pulled it off without Imprint and I'm the onlyguy who has done it that I know of so..I don't know if I'd trust me. MY SHIT ROCKS, though. Think of the SPL gains at a clean undistorted level simply by dividing the tweeter's load into 3 istead of 2 with perfectly balanced imaging....decisions decisons, bro.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Oh also can I get away with an 8" sub in such a small car. I'm not a bass-head. Don't really want big bass, just musical and loud sound overall.

Everybody says that

If you look into a 9 inch 3 way set, you'll more than ikely be happy with stereo after tediously selecting the correct slopes and phase.

 

[bustaplz 10+ year member]

Oh also can I get away with an 8" sub in such a small car. I'm not a bass-head. Don't really want big bass, just musical and loud sound overall.

Honestly, very few 8" drivers are up to the task imo. An 8 in a sealed box without having a large amount of power won't really fill a car. A ported 8 will do it well, but the box would be larger than a sealed 10. Since you aren't looking for loud, sealed is a good choice, with the added cone area a 10 has over an 8, it's probably the smallest single driver I would consider using myself in a setup. I have two 10's, ported. They can get pretty loud if I'm playing songs to show them off, but they only slightly overpower my mids and highs without any EQ. If you end up with a nice component set and decent power to them, I think you could easily overpower a sealed 8" woofer.

This is all my opinion, of course, but I hope it can help you out some.

It would seem aworldcollision is quite a bit more knowledgeable than myself in most areas so take his advice before mine.

 

[bustaplz 10+ year member]

I would have laved to fit a 3 way 9'' Elate set from Morel which, yes, you could fit.3 way is very hard to tune corectly becaus of the relaionship of one driver to another. Because of phasing issues and arrival time issues, 2 way plus sub seems to create a more believeable stage..which is important. I've had very good luck using Audyssey to tune the center channel using one ofthe sub woofer output. If you were to have a center channel and massiver amounts of tuning, you'd be amazed of the things you could accomplish...WITH MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF POWER!!! to answer that other question

So...decide. Minimalist approach like most. 2-way plus sub.

Complicated but with lots of tuning such as an Alpine h650 or 701 for self-tuning.

I love my center channel but I couldn't have pulled it off without Imprint and I'm the onlyguy who has done it that I know of so..I don't know if I'd trust me. MY SHIT ROCKS, though. Think of the SPL gains at a clean undistorted level simply by dividing the tweeter's load into 3 istead of 2 with perfectly balanced imaging....decisions decisons, bro.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Everybody says that

If you look into a 9 inch 3 way set, you'll more than ikely be happy with stereo after tediously selecting the correct slopes and phase.

Could you link me to a 9 inch 3 way set? I've never looked into 3 way components, is there a pretty big price difference over a 2 way set?

 

[aworldcollision 10+ year member]

there's a difference but its all the processing whther or not its a good difference. ITs a richer sound when done right. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm an Imprint man which really helps staging out.With the center (which is what I run, I put the 3.5 mids on the center for a good center stage) and 2 way, I've found the best of botch worlds in whcih case individual drivers would be best.

http://www.morelhifi.com/products/mob_3way_elate.html

I have the 6 inch version. You'll note a nice frequency response on the 9" though. An 8 inch sub would only work with a great 8-10 inch midbass set-up like James Bang's.

I'm sure a 10 will fit in there, its an IB though, right? In other words, you get make it fit but there's no enclosure?

OP, do you have a diagram from the webz on how your system is set-up? Where/how is the sub set-up?

What is the budget? I still suggest the Alpine h650 and a great 6 channel amp + monoblock. Which is what I run...sort of.