*New Test: Sundown SAZ-1500D*

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Using the power triangle if I calculated correctly true power would be 2096w.

Thats absurd, absolutely positively no way that amp is doing 2096w...period. Let alone running at 1 ohm with a rise up to 2.7

That would mean my kicker is doing upwards of 4kw. Sound logical? Hardly.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Thats absurd, absolutely positively no way that amp is doing 2096w...period. Let alone running at 1 ohm with a rise up to 2.7
That would mean my kicker is doing upwards of 4kw. Sound logical? Hardly.

I miscalculated. I've been doing calculus work for the past 2 hours and then I quit because I was making stupid mistakes then I find this thread and I made another stupid mistake. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

So basically you want me to do testing with a 1 ohm resistor?
How is that a real world test? Nobody ever has a pure 1 ohm load consistently across all frequencies that you would find in any music. Doing a pure 1 ohm test is a completely WRONG test to do if you are looking for REAL WORLD power results.

I don't care what an amp can do with a 1 ohm load, I care what it does IN MY CAR, WHERE IT COUNTS. If you somehow think that the way you are testing amps is a correct interpretation of what an amp will do in a car on music/tones, then you are fairly ignorant.

Once again, I don't care to listen to your crap any more. I posted MY results with the way I test, if you know of a better way to test things out, then do the tests yourself and post the results. Until then, don't bother telling me how to do things without doing them yourself.

Again, you have missed the point. The point of the resistive testing is to get rid of the imaginary part of the impedance. The point isn't to see what it does at 1 ohm but to rather see what power the subs are actually seeing. Your tests do NOT show REAL WORLD results like you think they do. God ****... are you really that hard headed?

Have you taken any electrical analysis classes? If you have, you would understand what I'm telling you. If you haven't, it's no big deal and it doesn't mean you're stupid. Instead, you seem to think I'm attacking you and you just shut out everything I have said when in reality, I'm trying to show you the correct way to go about things and why your test is flawed.

If I had the money and equipment, I would love to test out tons of amps and get much more accurate results. I have already told you how you could do the same but you ignore me and think I'm trying to attack you or make you feel stupid. Not many people have taken the courses or the time to learn this material because it really is not needed. But, if you're going to post results on an amp, you sure as hell better know what you're doing to keep from posting incorrect information.

It's really sad that instead of trying to learn the error of your test, you just keep saying the same thing over and over and keep calling my input "shit" and "crap" without any justification. But hey, if you're happy not knowing what the hell is going on, that's all that really matters. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I miscalculated. I've been doing calculus work for the past 2 hours and then I quit because I was making stupid mistakes then I find this thread and I made another stupid mistake. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Well, try recalculating and see what you come up with. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Lil Poot 5,000+ posts]

how do i measure impedence rise?

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I find it useful as a comparison between the two amps, whether or not the power figures given are true power figures or not.

We do get that the Kicker ZX2500.1 is 3.1dB louder than the SAZ-1500D. Was the Kicker also running at 1 ohm? If so this is almost exactly what you would expect since you should be getting over double the power of an SAZ-1500D with a Kicker ZX2500 @ 1 ohm, correct? This is assuming that the ZX2500 gains very minimal output by dropping the impedance from 2 to 1 ohm.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Again, you have missed the point. The point of the resistive testing is to get rid of the imaginary part of the impedance. The point isn't to see what it does at 1 ohm but to rather see what power the subs are actually seeing. Your tests do NOT show REAL WORLD results like you think they do. God ****... are you really that hard headed?
Have you taken any electrical analysis classes? If you have, you would understand what I'm telling you. If you haven't, it's no big deal and it doesn't mean you're stupid. Instead, you seem to think I'm attacking you and you just shut out everything I have said when in reality, I'm trying to show you the correct way to go about things and why your test is flawed.

If I had the money and equipment, I would love to test out tons of amps and get much more accurate results. I have already told you how you could do the same but you ignore me and think I'm trying to attack you or make you feel stupid. Not many people have taken the courses or the time to learn this material because it really is not needed. But, if you're going to post results on an amp, you sure as hell better know what you're doing to keep from posting incorrect information.

It's really sad that instead of trying to learn the error of your test, you just keep saying the same thing over and over and keep calling my input "shit" and "crap" without any justification. But hey, if you're happy not knowing what the hell is going on, that's all that really matters. Ignorance is bliss.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif

I havent taken any classes past HS electronics wich barely got past ohms law and physics which got just past power transfer, but I'm a nerd and do extra reading when I dont need to. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Edit: Tommy, dont take this as me you are not smart. You're a lot louder than I could dream of being at this point in time. I respect your scores and experence. A lot more than some others on this forum.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

I find it useful as a comparison between the two amps, whether or not the power figures given are true power figures or not.

I find it useful in that respect as well and I stated that.

Why I'm catching so much flack for it I don't know. I don't recall this much b*tching going on in loyd's thread....

Well then you must not have read any of my posts or you just don't understand them. Read my posts again; you might learn something. God forbid that you don't know everything there is to know about car audio and electronics.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Again, you have missed the point. The point of the resistive testing is to get rid of the imaginary part of the impedance. The point isn't to see what it does at 1 ohm but to rather see what power the subs are actually seeing. Your tests do NOT show REAL WORLD results like you think they do. God ****... are you really that hard headed?
Have you taken any electrical analysis classes? If you have, you would understand what I'm telling you. If you haven't, it's no big deal and it doesn't mean you're stupid. Instead, you seem to think I'm attacking you and you just shut out everything I have said when in reality, I'm trying to show you the correct way to go about things and why your test is flawed.

If I had the money and equipment, I would love to test out tons of amps and get much more accurate results. I have already told you how you could do the same but you ignore me and think I'm trying to attack you or make you feel stupid. Not many people have taken the courses or the time to learn this material because it really is not needed. But, if you're going to post results on an amp, you sure as hell better know what you're doing to keep from posting incorrect information.

It's really sad that instead of trying to learn the error of your test, you just keep saying the same thing over and over and keep calling my input "shit" and "crap" without any justification. But hey, if you're happy not knowing what the hell is going on, that's all that really matters. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm just sitting here wondering why you've decided to post all this nonsense in my thread instead of the other hundred test threads out there. Go post all this crap in loyd's thread and see what happens.

It's not that I don't like learning, because I do. But I've been taught to test amps this way, i've seen people test amps this way, and I KNOW that everyone tests amps this way. In a real world environment, with a subwoofer. Not on some test bench with an o-scope.

I haven't taken any electrical analysis classes, and I don't plan on it.

Good luck convincing the thousands of people out there who test this way that their ideals are flawed and they are all doing their tests improperly. While you may have the "better" way of testing, it's far from being the most popular or easiest to use.

And you are correct, ignorance is bliss. I asked you to stop posting a long time ago, yet you continued to post where nobody wanted you to. I hope you learn from this thread just as much as I do.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I find it useful as a comparison between the two amps, whether or not the power figures given are true power figures or not.
We do get that the Kicker ZX2500.1 is 3.1dB louder than the SAZ-1500D. Was the Kicker also running at 1 ohm? If so this is almost exactly what you would expect since you should be getting over double the power of an SAZ-1500D with a Kicker ZX2500 @ 1 ohm, correct? This is assuming that the ZX2500 gains very minimal output by dropping the impedance from 2 to 1 ohm.

That is correct. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Thus why we are going to drop the ohm load to .5 on the sundown and feed it 16v. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Also take into consideration the $1600 retail price of the zx2500 and you can see why I like this amp for the price. I have yet to officially clamp the zx2500 to see what power I'm getting out of it or what kind of impedence rise. For all I know I could be getting even more rise out of the kicker.

From what I've been told by kicker and my teammates is that 1 and 2 ohm power levels are fairly close. I just ran at 1 ohm because that was the load I could run it at. We have gotten the kicker to play at .5 ohm, just takes a steady hand on the volume knob and the electrical system to back it up. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[xclusiv3 10+ year member]

. I've been doing calculus work for the past 2 hours and then I quit because I was making stupid mistakes then I find this thread and I made another stupid mistake. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

it does that too ya....

im in calc myself.

optimizations FTMFL

tryna lighten the mood up in here //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[req 5,000+ posts]

here is what the point is.

just because the amp can produce different numbers in a lab means nothing when those numbers will never be reached on a daily scale.

regardless of the correct way to test power that is not what means anything. he wants to see applied things, you want to see lab results.

there are many ways of testing things out, you are simply pointing out another approach to a different solution. just because this test does not use load resistors and produce real power numbers, does not mean that the test is useless. im sure you understand why he did this test, and i know he understands why you are pointing out there is a "better way" to do power calculations.

but the equipment is expensive and the tests do not show any relative (to daily expierences) results for his application.

good stuff tommay.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

I'm just sitting here wondering why you've decided to post all this nonsense in my thread instead of the other hundred test threads out there. Go post all this crap in loyd's thread and see what happens.
It's not that I don't like learning, because I do. But I've been taught to test amps this way, i've seen people test amps this way, and I KNOW that everyone tests amps this way. In a real world environment, with a subwoofer. Not on some test bench with an o-scope.

I haven't taken any electrical analysis classes, and I don't plan on it.

Good luck convincing the thousands of people out there who test this way that their ideals are flawed and they are all doing their tests improperly. While you may have the "better" way of testing, it's far from being the most popular or easiest to use.

And you are correct, ignorance is bliss. I asked you to stop posting a long time ago, yet you continued to post where nobody wanted you to. I hope you learn from this thread just as much as I do.

What he is saying is there is a difference between Apparent power, which is how you and loyd and most others 'test' power, and True power, which is how CES and a select few test power along with how power companies efficently transfer power. To test the way he is talking about with 100% accuracy you need a constant load and a Oscilliscope. Two things you dont have. It is a legitemit test for the reasons stated by sundown.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

For the record... I hate Calculus. Algebra and Trig for the win... loved that stuff... don't know what it is about Calc but I never liked it much.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

here is what the point is.
just because the amp can produce different numbers in a lab means nothing when those numbers will never be reached on a daily scale.

regardless of the correct way to test power that is not what means anything. he wants to see applied things, you want to see lab results.

Not exactly, but sure that works. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif