*New Test: Sundown SAZ-1500D*

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

What he is saying is there is a difference between Apparent power, which is how you and loyd and most others 'test' power, and True power, which is how CES and a select few test power along with how power companies efficently transfer power. To test the way he is talking about with 100% accuracy you need a constant load and a Oscilliscope. Two things you dont have. It is a legitemit test for the reasons stated by sundown.

I know what he's getting at.

Req's post above yours pretty much sums it up for me. I like to see in-car results, you guys want to see a bench test result with an o-scope. Different strokes for different folks. I could care less what the CEA tests show or what a bench test shows. Once that amp is put into a vehicle and music fed through it, any and all equations and bench test results are completely worthless.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

For the record... I hate Calculus. Algebra and Trig for the win... loved that stuff... don't know what it is about Calc but I never liked it much.

Wait...the owner of an amp company that doesnt like calculus. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Wait...the owner of an amp company that doesnt like calculus. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

*laughs*

Yah... Just don't care for doing the stuff. Maybe because my teacher was totally useless and I literally taught myself from a "Dummies" book. Of course, being that I was in the EET major I had to do plenty of it anyway!

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

I know what he's getting at.
Req's post above yours pretty much sums it up for me. I like to see in-car results, you guys want to see a bench test result with an o-scope. Different strokes for different folks.

*in car test with an 0-Scoper is what I'd like to see, but O-Scopes are expensive. Was doing wishful thinking and asked for one on my Xmas list my mom requires me to give her every year. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

That, a Router, and a good clamp meter.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

*laughs*
Yah... Just don't care for doing the stuff. Maybe because my teacher was totally useless and I literally taught myself from a "Dummies" book. Of course, being that I was in the EET major I had to do plenty of it anyway!

I dont care if you designed your amps using arithmatic (is that possible?) as long as they kick ***. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif :naughty:

PS

Complete Idiots Guide to AP Calculus has made Calc a breeze. But I procrastinate and do all of my assignements the night before they are due. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

*in car test with an 0-Scoper is what I'd like to see, but O-Scopes are expensive. Was doing wishful thinking and asked for one on my Xmas list my mom requires me to give her every year. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif
That, a Router, and a good clamp meter.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

Not to mention impratical.

Imagine dragging around an o-scope at a show so people can see how much power they are really getting. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I did the tests the way I know how with the equipment I have access to. If people are unsatisfied with the results, they can do the tests themselves with the equipment they have an post the results.

I just didn't want all this crap in my thread. It seems that no matter what the topic, my (and my teammates) threads always just go to shit.

I would like it if a mod came in here and delted every post besides my original one and just locked the thread. That way this thread can be informative instead of a b*tchfest.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

I'm just sitting here wondering why you've decided to post all this nonsense in my thread instead of the other hundred test threads out there. Go post all this crap in loyd's thread and see what happens.

I posted in loyd's thread but you see, he didn't have very much rise at all. This means that the power triangle looks very similar to the "B" triangle I posted earlier. That means the apparent power is pretty close to the actual. Your test is not the same and you have a good amount of reactance.

It's not that I don't like learning, because I do. But I've been taught to test amps this way, i've seen people test amps this way, and I KNOW that everyone tests amps this way. In a real world environment, with a subwoofer. Not on some test bench with an o-scope.

CEA doesn't test like this. I'm pretty sure they know just a little bit more than your average forum joe. I have seen many threads on other forums with people using scopes to set the gains and use frequencies away from impedance spikes as well. This is still a real world enviroment.

I haven't taken any electrical analysis classes, and I don't plan on it.

Well then why won't you listen to what I have to say seeing that I have this knowledge?

Good luck convincing the thousands of people out there who test this way that their ideals are flawed and they are all doing their tests improperly. While you may have the "better" way of testing, it's far from being the most popular or easiest to use.

People have tested like I have said and it is more common than you think. Loyd was pretty close in his test...

And you are correct, ignorance is bliss. I asked you to stop posting a long time ago, yet you continued to post where nobody wanted you to. I hope you learn from this thread just as much as I do.

I'm sorry that you want to keep your head in the sand but I'm sure there are people out there who would like to understand this. It's too bad you're too hard headed to see that.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

CBFryman2,

Haha! Thats great... now that I think about it that is the same book I used in my Calculus I course... it really is a great book.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I posted in loyd's thread but you see, he didn't have very much rise at all. This means that the power triangle looks very similar to the "B" triangle I posted earlier. That means the apparent power is pretty close to the actual. Your test is not the same and you have a good amount of reactance.
CEA doesn't test like this. I'm pretty sure they know just a little bit more than your average forum joe. I have seen many threads on other forums with people using scopes to set the gains and use frequencies away from impedance spikes as well. This is still a real world enviroment.

Well then why won't you listen to what I have to say seeing that I have this knowledge?

People have tested like I have said and it is more common than you think. Loyd was pretty close in his test...

I'm sorry that you want to keep your head in the sand but I'm sure there are people out there who would like to understand this. It's too bad you're too hard headed to see that.

Read my last few posts, then STFU.

Did you personally ask loyd what his rise was during the sundown test? I didn't see him post it anywhere.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Not to mention impratical.
Imagine dragging around an o-scope at a show so people can see how much power they are really getting. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Carputer and O-Scope card FTW maybe. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

here is what the point is.
regardless of the correct way to test power that is not what means anything. he wants to see applied things, you want to see lab results.

No. You have missed the point as well. What I'm saying is that the numbers he is putting up is NOT what the sub is seeing nor is that the power the amp is producing. It's not about lab tests but it IS about true, real world, power.

 

[xluben 10+ year member]

i also think that the useful-ness of this test was in comparison of the actual TL reading with the two amps.

but saying the amp did 1000W at 2.7 ohms isn't very accurate. just because other people use that method of 'rating' an amp doesn't always make it accurate.

as immacomputer explained, a setup with a less inductive load will provide much more accurate results in this kind of test (accurate as compared to a bench test with non-reactive load).

but i don't see how a test like this can really be used to tell how much under/over rated an amp is, because you are not rating an amp via the same test method as a stardard 'bench' test, where amp ratings should come from (to level the playing field).

saying that your test provides 'real world' results is a bit misleading, due to the fact that your results seem to imply (to someone with only a basic knowledge of ohm's law) that this amp will do well over 2,000 W on a 12V system, when this is not true if tested as per amp rating standards (ie. CEA).

just my opinion, btw. and i also did bring this up in loyd's thread, but as immacomputer mentioned, his setup was much less inductive and therefore will provide results closer to a true bench test (totally non-reactive).

also, the o-scope is another issue with your test (and loyd's). a clipped signal is going to affect the rms voltage reading and also could be altering the results.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Imagine dragging around an o-scope at a show so people can see how much power they are really getting. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gifI just didn't want all this crap in my thread. It seems that no matter what the topic, my (and my teammates) threads always just go to shit.

I would like it if a mod came in here and delted every post besides my original one and just locked the thread. That way this thread can be informative instead of a b*tchfest.

The only *****ing is coming from you.

I have nothing against you or your team. I don't give a flying **** about anything that has happened in the past to you or your team.

The scope is used to set the gain properly so you know the amp is not clipping heavily. Do you run your amp pretty heavily clipped daily? This wouldn't be very "real world" now would it?

This thread hasn't gone to shit and maybe you would learn something if you would take the time to try to understand what I'm typing instead of getting all bent up about it. Stop being so offensive.

i also think that the useful-ness of this test was in comparison of the actual TL reading with the two amps.

So do I and I have said this in one of my previous posts.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

The bottom line is, is that this thread turned into something I didn't want it to. I posted MY results the way I wanted to post them, end of story.

If others want to test them another way, then have at it. Quit shitting on my thread.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

The bottom line is, is that this thread turned into something I didn't want it to. I posted MY results the way I wanted to post them, end of story.
If others want to test them another way, then have at it. Quit shitting on my thread.

Grow up.