New box for my box

[jlsmobilesound 10+ year member]

Doing what the customer wants is a great business practice; However there comes a point when the business reps should tell the customer what is going to happen. Most customers don't know how an install is going to be implemented (Design, specifications) and in this respect is where the installer tells the customer whats going to be done in order to fit their wants or needs.

Trust that we do assist and fill them in when it needs to be done...

Like I said - our happy clients speaks volumes...

Thanks for the input, however.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I do notice you declined to tell us why your box guy thought mixing enclosure types was a positive thing. All you have said is that you trust in his abilities. He should be able to give a plausible answer to the question. He must have had some reason, right?

I know you are taking this as all negative, and sadly for some here thats all it is to them. But alot of this is people in the hobby, looking out for other enthusiasts in the same hobby. Your shop was going to build this guy a poor design, that's simple truth.

You seem friendly to advice, please allow me to give you some. Buy a book called Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, by Vance Dickason. You dont have to learn everything in it, but you own an audio shop... imo its worth a few nights in bed reading it to learn some fundamentals of designing a speaker system. Its considered a valued reference book in the audio field, and honestly... it wont take long looking through it to find the fundamental flaws in your box guy's sealed/ported attempt.

In learning even just the basics, you will be able to know when 'your guy' is BS'ing you, like he is with this sealed/ported nonsense. A little kowledge could go a long way towards improving you, and your business.

Good luck to you.

 

[StupidLoud727 10+ year member]

You seem friendly to advice, please allow me to give you some. Buy a book called Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, by Vance Dickason. You dont have to learn everything in it, but you own an audio shop... imo its worth a few nights in bed reading it to learn some fundamentals of designing a speaker system. Its considered a valued reference book in the audio field, and honestly... it wont take long looking through it to find the fundamental flaws in your box guy's sealed/ported attempt.

An installer I know at my local audio shop had a copy of that and let me borrow it for a week, and I learned more in reading that book for a week than I do in a month of AP Calculus in high school. It will be an essential piece of literature in the world of audio for a long time in my opinion. A really great read.

 

[steve c 10+ year member]

^^^ hmm maybe i should pick that book up

learn me somthn' HAHAH

 

[jlsmobilesound 10+ year member]

Hey guys, what a post. Steve, hows it going buddy! I know I said it wasnt worth getting on blogs and forums but I have to post something.

This is the installer that fabricated the enclosure. First off each one of you have way too much time on your hands.... to be posting this much and looking for someone to bash is astonishing. Makes me wonder why you arent out there fabricating enclosures for a living and making bank at it.

Now for why I build such enclosure. First off Steve came to us wanting to run his three 12" subs. First he wanted it just loud, producing low bass......so first we figured lets do it ported. Now he wanted not just loud but showy as well....something that will hit pretty hard and look at its best. So as a few of you have mentioned, you at one time had run a Sealed and Ported enclosure at the same time and at that same time thought it sounded great, which im almost certain to the average ear it sounded great.

Steve also mentioned he is not trying to compete at all, just wants his ride to look nice, sound nice and not be shy to shows with no intentions on competing SPL or SQL. So now I had the option to build a complete ported enclosure with 3 chambers and their own vent...... keep in mind there are two identical amp and the third also identical specs but older model.... now, while fabricating this enclosure, I figured why not do something completly out of the ordinary....and do two sealed at .9sqft and run the recommended power to the two and lets run the center sub ported at 1.79sqft with a vent of 1.25"X12.5"X22.5" with a little less power than the two sealed.

Now reading what I have posted, it is unconventional and is frowned upon I agree and expressed this to Steve before building....non the less, doesnt really matter what all you state on here, to the common ear this box will be loud and hit pretty hard...... how do I know you ask, I have heard systems where they encorporate both sealed inclosures and Ported in a single vehicle and produced quite a bit of bass. Now is this an efficient way of running the subs, no. Are the subs running at its full potential, no. Obviously a ported enclosure will drop lower, a sealed will hit acuratly and tight.....but the system build of two sealed and one ported not only will hit hard but look great in the back of the xB. Will there be some cancelation? Yes! Will the common ear notice? Not likely. Either way, Steve gets to explore his options....if one does not work best for the customer, we at JLS always acomodate the customer until they are satisfied and no matter what, Steve will be satisfied once the job is completed, Guaranteed, as other returning customers agree.

Now back to the bashing on the earlier two jobs we done that was posted..... the first image of the raw 12" enclosure was a prefab by BoxMax with also a 1.5" wide port per side. The next image of the 3 RF T2's this was a single chamber enclosure running mono with a ported spec that came from RF Tech themselves after the final build spec was given to them... now if you all are so great at building space age enclosures, please give me the name and number of your elite box shop so maybe we can buy such great enclosures for ourselves.

Now back to actually running a reputable shop, we perform each job at the best of our ability and as long as the customer is satisfied in the end, thats all that matters. We also never state we know it all and better than anyone else. Since all of you seem to be guru's, Im sure your shop is doing great also.

I am only on here to back up my fellow co-workers and Steve. Needless to say, he opted now for a sealed inclosure which we are now fabricating, no questions asked.

Now for anyone else on this forum that is a noob at car audio, all these geniuses seem to have a bionic ear to hear every single note and frequency not audible to the human ear, try not to let any of them get to you or sway your opinion or thoughts. It’s the innovator and outside the box thinking that makes success. “At first shot fail, try again”.

And Steve, my apologies for you getting slammed by these great geniuses whom must drive around in their space age systems being monitored by an analyzer to make sure each note and frequency is being hit. Regardless, take their input and what you’ve heard and know and come up with your own conclusion.

Everyone has something bad to say about everyone and everything once given the chance as seen here. To actually advise someone whom been in business over 5yrs with 99.9% satisfied customers returning when work is needed, is ignorant. Anyone who thinks there is a shop out there that knows 100% about car audio or everything else is a fool. Not everyone out there knows everything, so assuming since we are a shop that we should know it ALL, you are all mislead. However we do know car audio as a whole to the best of our abilities….may not be able to build space age boxes that superman can hear, but we guarantee that we can have your system sounding great and making our customers happy.

One last note, I assume since some of you on here are so down to the point of building an enclosure to spec and know so much about speaker parameters….Id guess it would be safe to say you all work for Q-Logic….or maybe JL Audio perhaps designing their top notch enclosures….. wait or better yet how about Bose with their out of the box thinking that no thought would sound great…… even though bose design sound so great, there are forums and post’s out there bashing on Bose designs and knowledge. Maybe you can start building “custom” enclosures to sell to us unknowledgeable shops.

Other than that, no more post from me to this forum……and if any one here in the OC area that wants a shop to do the cleanest work possible to the best of their abilities and upfront with customers with nothing to hide, feel free to contact or come see us for any questions or help. It only matters if your satisfied.

Installer over and out!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Hey guys, what a post. Steve, hows it going buddy! I know I said it wasnt worth getting on blogs and forums but I have to post something.
This is the installer that fabricated the enclosure. First off each one of you have way too much time on your hands.... to be posting this much and looking for someone to bash is astonishing. Makes me wonder why you arent out there fabricating enclosures for a living and making bank at it.

Now for why I build such enclosure. First off Steve came to us wanting to run his three 12" subs. First he wanted it just loud, producing low bass......so first we figured lets do it ported. Now he wanted not just loud but showy as well....something that will hit pretty hard and look at its best. So as a few of you have mentioned, you at one time had run a Sealed and Ported enclosure at the same time and at that same time thought it sounded great, which im almost certain to the average ear it sounded great.

Steve also mentioned he is not trying to compete at all, just wants his ride to look nice, sound nice and not be shy to shows with no intentions on competing SPL or SQL. So now I had the option to build a complete ported enclosure with 3 chambers and their own vent...... keep in mind there are two identical amp and the third also identical specs but older model.... now, while fabricating this enclosure, I figured why not do something completly out of the ordinary....and do two sealed at .9sqft and run the recommended power to the two and lets run the center sub ported at 1.79sqft with a vent of 1.25"X12.5"X22.5" with a little less power than the two sealed.

Now reading what I have posted, it is unconventional and is frowned upon I agree and expressed this to Steve before building....non the less, doesnt really matter what all you state on here, to the common ear this box will be loud and hit pretty hard...... how do I know you ask, I have heard systems where they encorporate both sealed inclosures and Ported in a single vehicle and produced quite a bit of bass. Now is this an efficient way of running the subs, no. Are the subs running at its full potential, no. Obviously a ported enclosure will drop lower, a sealed will hit acuratly and tight.....but the system build of two sealed and one ported not only will hit hard but look great in the back of the xB. Will there be some cancelation? Yes! Will the common ear notice? Not likely. Either way, Steve gets to explore his options....if one does not work best for the customer, we at JLS always acomodate the customer until they are satisfied and no matter what, Steve will be satisfied once the job is completed, Guaranteed, as other returning customers agree.

Now back to the bashing on the earlier two jobs we done that was posted..... the first image of the raw 12" enclosure was a prefab by BoxMax with also a 1.5" wide port per side. The next image of the 3 RF T2's this was a single chamber enclosure running mono with a ported spec that came from RF Tech themselves after the final build spec was given to them... now if you all are so great at building space age enclosures, please give me the name and number of your elite box shop so maybe we can buy such great enclosures for ourselves.

Now back to actually running a reputable shop, we perform each job at the best of our ability and as long as the customer is satisfied in the end, thats all that matters. We also never state we know it all and better than anyone else. Since all of you seem to be guru's, Im sure your shop is doing great also.

I am only on here to back up my fellow co-workers and Steve. Needless to say, he opted now for a sealed inclosure which we are now fabricating, no questions asked.

Now for anyone else on this forum that is a noob at car audio, all these geniuses seem to have a bionic ear to hear every single note and frequency not audible to the human ear, try not to let any of them get to you or sway your opinion or thoughts. It’s the innovator and outside the box thinking that makes success. “At first shot fail, try again”.

And Steve, my apologies for you getting slammed by these great geniuses whom must drive around in their space age systems being monitored by an analyzer to make sure each note and frequency is being hit. Regardless, take their input and what you’ve heard and know and come up with your own conclusion.

Everyone has something bad to say about everyone and everything once given the chance as seen here. To actually advise someone whom been in business over 5yrs with 99.9% satisfied customers returning when work is needed, is ignorant. Anyone who thinks there is a shop out there that knows 100% about car audio or everything else is a fool. Not everyone out there knows everything, so assuming since we are a shop that we should know it ALL, you are all mislead. However we do know car audio as a whole to the best of our abilities….may not be able to build space age boxes that superman can hear, but we guarantee that we can have your system sounding great and making our customers happy.

One last note, I assume since some of you on here are so down to the point of building an enclosure to spec and know so much about speaker parameters….Id guess it would be safe to say you all work for Q-Logic….or maybe JL Audio perhaps designing their top notch enclosures….. wait or better yet how about Bose with their out of the box thinking that no thought would sound great…… even though bose design sound so great, there are forums and post’s out there bashing on Bose designs and knowledge. Maybe you can start building “custom” enclosures to sell to us unknowledgeable shops.

Other than that, no more post from me to this forum……and if any one here in the OC area that wants a shop to do the cleanest work possible to the best of their abilities and upfront with customers with nothing to hide, feel free to contact or come see us for any questions or help. It only matters if your satisfied.

Installer over and out!

Just when I was starting to like you guys.
Your condescending attitude, towards our 'bionic ears' and our thinking 'inside the box', is rather ironic considering your lack of knowledge, in your own profession. For god's sake, educate yourself, go read a book on the subject. Ive already offered one as a suggestion. Again, it would take mere minutes for a beginner to flip through the pages of LDC and find huge flaws in your sealed/ported design.

As to your notion it was 'flashy' and what the customer wanted. Uhm, if he had taken that install to a show, and anyone who knew anything about enclosure design saw it, they would laugh (at least to themselves). Deny it all you want, again its the plain truth. What's flashy about looking at a fundamentally flawed stereo design? How is 2 sealed and 1 ported more flashy than a 'conventional' enclosure? because nobody else does it? Maybe that should have been your first clue it was a bad idea.

Why am I not making bank building enclosures? Well frankly, after reading this thread, and seeing some 'professionals' knowledge, maybe I should. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif nah, I already have a career, and a better one than fabbing up speaker enclosures. This is a hobby to me, and even this hobbiest can see you, the professional, are in over your head.

Your notion that so long as the customer leaves happy, all is well. That logic is just as flawed as your enclosure design was. Say you sell tv's, and Joe customer walks in to buy the tv with the best picture you can sell him... but he knows nothing about tv's. You decide he wants a 'flashy' television, one to impress his buddies when they come over to watch the game. You sell him not the best tv you have picture wise, but the flashiest one. His buddy stops over to see his new television, being a tv dork himself, and announces to your customer that he was sold an older model tv, that the newer ones have a better picture. Your customer is no longer happy. Moral of the story? When you do a half-assed job, you run the risk of your customer finding out, and ending up unhappy.

I seriously doubt this guy, being a noob, would have skoffed if you, being the box expert, had told him the acoustical flaws in using sealed AND ported. But then, you've already admitted it was YOUR idea, not the boss, not the customer, yours. And your reasoning? It would be flashy, look 'good'... and who the heck would hear the difference anyway? Sorry, but for an AUDIO shop, that's a lame attitude. All show and no go. You'd make a good installer for Pimp My Ride however.

If you'd like to become a member of this forum, we can teach you how to design and build boxes properly. Otherwise, just read the dang book. Educate yourself on your own field. You need it. If you dont believe me, or anyone else here, maybe you'll believe Vance Dickason. I bet your boss will.

Im sorry you had to get a black eye like this in front of your boss, but this has been brought on by your bad design, and your shop's attitude of spreading the word around here. But you can turn this into a positive... read the book. Your boos should only need to skim it and learn the basics, you should know that book cover to cover.

 

[mdillon 10+ year member]

when did bose start sounding good?

 

[energizedsbs 10+ year member]

just when the boss gets things going right the installer comes on here..

audioholic you nailed it on the head brother

 

[JLJunkieMX107 10+ year member]

Wow your shop was actually starting to seem just misunderstood but then your installer came in and shot his mouth off. Why do I not build speaker boxes for a living? Because I have goals to make more for my life. Mechanical Engineering pays a lot more buddy. So we have too much time on our hands? Maybe you should make some time to observe the forum and learn how to design a better box. And what baffles me is that these are simple designs! Not some t-line or 6th order!

 

[JLJunkieMX107 10+ year member]

One last note, I assume since some of you on here are so down to the point of building an enclosure to spec and know so much about speaker parameters….Id guess it would be safe to say you all work for Q-Logic….or maybe JL Audio perhaps designing their top notch enclosures….. wait or better yet how about Bose with their out of the box thinking that no thought would sound great…… even though bose design sound so great, there are forums and post’s out there bashing on Bose designs and knowledge. Maybe you can start building “custom” enclosures to sell to us unknowledgeable shops. Other than that, no more post from me to this forum……and if any one here in the OC area that wants a shop to do the cleanest work possible to the best of their abilities and upfront with customers with nothing to hide, feel free to contact or come see us for any questions or help. It only matters if your satisfied.

Installer over and out!

This last paragraph completely lost all respect from me. We never claimed we were famous box designers. We simply pointed out your idiocy in fVcking up a simple design! And FYI I build enclosures for the middle tennessee area and never have had a complaint(maybe because I follow the simple principles of proper design). It is obvious you are insecure in your abilities which you should be if a bunch of guys on a forum can sit here and give viable facts as to why your "professional" design is flawed. And then your only defense is "ohh you dont run a shop so my designs are okay and you are wrong". How about you pull your head out of your a$$ and come back when you are ready to learn something. K thanks

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

Steve also mentioned he is not trying to compete at all, just wants his ride to look nice, sound nice and not be shy to shows with no intentions on competing SPL or SQL. So now I had the option to build a complete ported enclosure with 3 chambers and their own vent...... keep in mind there are two identical amp and the third also identical specs but older model.... now, while fabricating this enclosure, I figured why not do something completly out of the ordinary....and do two sealed at .9sqft and run the recommended power to the two and lets run the center sub ported at 1.79sqft with a vent of 1.25"X12.5"X22.5" with a little less power than the two sealed.

If he wanted it to sound nice, then your obvious knowledge of a flawed design is a bad business practice.

Just because amps have the same specs doesn't mean the reproduce the input identically. By your reasoning, an amp from Audiobahn (//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif)should sound the same as a Kicker amp, as long as they have the same specs.

Cubic feet is volume, square feet is area.

Now reading what I have posted, it is unconventional and is frowned upon I agree and expressed this to Steve before building....non the less, doesnt really matter what all you state on here, to the common ear this box will be loud and hit pretty hard...... how do I know you ask, I have heard systems where they encorporate both sealed inclosures and Ported in a single vehicle and produced quite a bit of bass. Now is this an efficient way of running the subs, no. Are the subs running at its full potential, no. Obviously a ported enclosure will drop lower, a sealed will hit acuratly and tight.....but the system build of two sealed and one ported not only will hit hard but look great in the back of the xB. Will there be some cancelation? Yes! Will the common ear notice? Not likely. Either way, Steve gets to explore his options....if one does not work best for the customer, we at JLS always acomodate the customer until they are satisfied and no matter what, Steve will be satisfied once the job is completed, Guaranteed, as other returning customers agree.

Saying that ported enclosures drop lower than a sealed is another example of your ignorance. If I told you I could flex a vehicle with a sealed 12" at 20hz (already have,) you would probably laugh at me. And that's quite sad for an installer.

Again, you obviously knowing that the install is going to have flaws is ridiculous.

Now back to the bashing on the earlier ... Blah blah blah ....

Installer over and out!

You have quite the urge to come on here and bash us for knowing a lot about our hobby.

 

[JLJunkieMX107 10+ year member]

and do two sealed at .9sqft and run the recommended power to the two and lets run the center sub ported at 1.79sqft with a vent of 1.25"X12.5"X22.5" with a little less power than the two sealed.

Installer over and out!

Wow just noticed this. You do not even know the difference between square and cubic feet. Thats a real professional installer right here folks! Save your pennies for one of his designs because they are top notch!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I like the part where they try to convince us Alpine recommended 16 sq inches of port area for a slot ported box and a Type R. Maybe their box guy doesn't understand the difference between recommended round port port areas, and recommended square port areas.

If you were gonna run that small of a port, you should AT LEAST be making the port round (PVC).

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

Like Audioholic said, I was starting to have a little respect for your shop, and then Mr. Installer came along with his condescending attitude. I don't have bionic ears or a widget that insures that I hit my notes correctly... but I do have a basic knowledge of how a sub should sound.

The thing that just BAFFLES me about your work is you keep referencing how you want it to look good. HAVE YOU READ WHAT HAS BEEN SAID OVER AND OVER IN THIS THREAD?! Good looking and good sounding can go hand-in-hand... you just have to know what you're doing. Obviously, you don't know what you're doing, since it seems like you believe the two are mutually exclusive. I've made some ugly, loud boxes, but I've made many more good-looking, loud boxes.

Let me give you a few pointers:

-Don't mix enclosure types. Ever. You should have figured this out my now.

-Don't mix subs. You should probably know this, too... but you don't have a great record. I'll throw that one in for free.

-For daily beating, try to tune to 35hz or lower. (Not 42hz!)

-The rule of thumb is to have 12-15 sq. in. of port per cubic foot for slot-ports

-Another rule of thumb is that the ports length to width ratio should never exceed 8:1

Those are some of the most basic box design rules. You broke #1,3,4, and 5 from just what we have seen in this thread. If this thread were an enclosure building test, you'd have a 20%. Fail.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I find up to a 1:9 ratio is acceptable.

Good point jmanpc, and one I meant to make too but forgot. There is absolutely no reason you cannot build an enclosure that looks good (flashy, refined, futuristic, whatever) and still maintains the proper performance level. Much of this point seems to be based around the slot port box, that when covered with a beauty panel, became 3 small slot ports. To say this was done for aesthetics is ridiculous. 3 small ports looks better than 1 large one? Okay, to some people I suppose. But in doing so, making a judgement call as to what would look better, you altered the port area, and thus possibly tuning (at worst, added port noise at best). So performance was sacrificed, for a 'look' that isn't even necessarily better. Again, all show and no go.

Clearly this shop bases its reputation from feeding off noobs who dont know any better than to question their box expert's advice. No wonder he doesn't like going to message board, he probably doesn't like being told how terrible he is.

I just hope the boss/owner has enough sense to read the book and do a little learning on his own. Then maybe he'll see the lousy knowledge base of the man with whom he is trusting with the repuation of his business. Someone at that shop needs to smarten up, desperately.