Need a test dummy

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

@NoLoud4U....I think there was a test done by Taylorfade on CACO. Might have to look for it.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

See how much those batteries weigh?! Wow..

One day I'd like to pick up a battery w/o visiting my chiropractor. It's very new technology so expect to pay an arm and a leg for them.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

Gonna be honest with you bro.
We have a ton of issues from clients having problems with these charging from normal alts and even more so with HO alts. We are currently in the works on designing a alternator specifically designed to charge Lithium batteries.

Our specific applications are 24v and 48v however, so a 12v battery may be different. But I'd be willing to bet it isn't.

The 24v and 48v batteries use larger lithium plates which need more heat from the charging unit.

A 12v battery is like 8-12 AA batteries in series. A high output alternator should have no issue charging these batteries since the regulators can be changed with little to no issues.

A normal alternator with an overdrive pulley would stress the stator to much as they hold less copper to exhaust the heat expansion.

Either way these batteries have been used in mowers for a couple years now. It should be no issue on a daily use, but only issue i see is excessive heat from amplifiers ******* these batteries dry.

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[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

I get messages every day about different lithium batts. The important thing to note for our use is the discharge and recharge rates. A BMS robust enough to handle the amount of current that we use would literally cost as much as the battery itself. The batt you linked has a decent recharge if that's a constant rate, but a lot of us have alts bigger than 180A.

FWIW... XS Power actually started that company and sold off the rights when Scottie decided the market wouldn't support $1,500 batteries. With the success of the JuiceBox... he reworked the BMS and got the price "reasonable" for the performance you get. His "15k" batt is around the same price as the JB but a little less capable. But it has a full BMS and balancing.



XS Power XS15K Lithium Powercell (XS15K)

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

I also have been running the JuiceBox lithium since day one. It is a friggin monster. I also run it in conjunction with AGM's. So I'm not sure why people are warning against running them together.

I actually have a lithium, and AGM and caps in the car right now. Lol. The trifecta!

For those who haven't seen this video...

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

I can't say I'm up to date on the most current lithium battery technology but I can tell you that I know the characteristics of that type of cell and imo they're not developed enough (public versions of the battery anyway) to be used in this application.

LiPo batteries have a very high probability of thermal runaway in an accidental overcharge or direct short. In addition to this they are extremely sensitive to different cell voltages and absolutely need to be balance charged with each sell having it's own charge wire. Lithium type batteries have been in use in the RC hobby for quite a while, 15 years? But we're talking about a small battery that has a balanced plug to monitor and charge each sell accordingly, preventing issues (they still happen, many houses, vehicles, and even aircraft have been burned down from issues with lithium batteries).

However, it is fair to say that they can offer a huge amount of current and maintain a constant output without sag like other batteries(the graph of voltage vs amperage is flat in the x direction then drops off) but the maintenance they require at this point is just too complicated for use in vehicles with traditional charging systems. The point TaylorFade made about the ratings of the battery for charge/discharge are EXTREMELY important. Getting a lithium battery with a low rating not suitable for your vehicle will have legitimate consequences.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I get messages every day about different lithium batts. The important thing to note for our use is the discharge and recharge rates. A BMS robust enough to handle the amount of current that we use would literally cost as much as the battery itself. The batt you linked has a decent recharge if that's a constant rate, but a lot of us have alts bigger than 180A.
FWIW... XS Power actually started that company and sold off the rights when Scottie decided the market wouldn't support $1,500 batteries. With the success of the JuiceBox... he reworked the BMS and got the price "reasonable" for the performance you get. His "15k" batt is around the same price as the JB but a little less capable. But it has a full BMS and balancing.



XS Power XS15K Lithium Powercell (XS15K)

I don't need much power. To be honest a small Batcap would be enough. I was looking at the $500 one here. Running stock 150 amp alt and I get minimal drop, I just need a fill in while the smart charge system is making its mind up.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

I don't need much power. To be honest a small Batcap would be enough. I was looking at the $500 one here. Running stock 150 amp alt and I get minimal drop, I just need a fill in while the smart charge system is making its mind up.

JuiceBox offers a 20Ah one now as well. Capable of 5k daily. It *should* be able to support a 10k burp, but I had trouble trying to pull 1,000A from it. That was probably my fault for not having it properly charged in the lanes though.

I believe the presale is $500.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

For those comparing them to RC batts and what not... these are the MUCH more stable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4)

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

For those comparing them to RC batts and what not... these are the MUCH more stable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4)

I'll research it, thanks!

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

JuiceBox offers a 20Ah one now as well. Capable of 5k daily. It *should* be able to support a 10k burp, but I had trouble trying to pull 1,000A from it. That was probably my fault for not having it properly charged in the lanes though.
I believe the presale is $500.

How would it do with lead acid as a starter? I have a group 90 and can't find a AGM that will fit right. I'll install a isolator if I have to.

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

How would it do with lead acid as a starter? I have a group 90 and can't find a AGM that will fit right. I'll install a isolator if I have to.

Isolator would be a good idea if you feel like you need to keep the underhood. These like to rest around 13.2-13.3v and even my AGM will draw down on it after a couple days.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Isolator would be a good idea if you feel like you need to keep the underhood. These like to rest around 13.2v (even though they're 12.8v nominal) and even my AGM will draw down on it after a couple days.

Ok. Thanks for stopping by. Easy day

 

[michaellane 5,000+ posts]

Few other ones kn ebay also for less from what I remember

 

[los33 10+ year member]

Isolator would be a good idea if you feel like you need to keep the underhood. These like to rest around 13.2-13.3v and even my AGM will draw down on it after a couple days.

Is your lithium underhood main battery or aux battery?

Ive tested mower lithiums as aux and have always became a leech causing the agm in front of it to die.

So after few tests ive had to keep the lithium up front and agms in back or else it caused a fast discharge.

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