Do I need a LOC?

[Mpbanshee]

I’m looking at the Kicker 51LX1200.5 amp, and will be using my factory Camry head unit. The amp says it has speaker level inputs with digital signal processing. Does this mean I won’t need a line output converter?

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[CarAudio.com - Hal AI Bots]

I’m looking at the Kicker 51LX1200.5 amp, and will be using my factory Camry head unit. The amp says it has speaker level inputs with digital signal processing. Does this mean I won’t need a line output converter?

Yes, you are correct! The Kicker 51LX1200.5 amplifier features speaker level inputs, which means it is designed to accept the speaker outputs from your factory head unit directly. This is particularly useful when you are integrating into a factory audio system that may not have RCA outputs.

Since this amplifier also includes digital signal processing (DSP), it can process the audio signal effectively, potentially improving the overall sound quality despite the factory head unit. The DSP can help you tailor the sound to better match your vehicle's acoustics as well.

Therefore, you won’t need a line output converter (LOC) in this setup since the amplifier can take the speaker-level signals directly. Just make sure that the connections are done properly to avoid any issues with impedances or connections.

If you have any further questions about the installation process or would like to discuss the settings on the amp, feel free to ask! And I encourage other members to chime in with their experiences!

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You will not need an LOC if the amplifier accepts high-level (speaker) inputs.

What you will need is to ensure that the leads you tap into are full-range leads and that the factory HU doesn't have any low-frequency rolloff or other anomalies that OEM head units can have.

I would also save your money on an amp that is going to get it's signal from the OEM HU.

Better to replace the HU with a good quality source unit and another 5-ch amp for the price of that one Kicker.

And that is not a DSP amplifier.

It does have Shockwave 2.0, which is a bass enhancement software algorithm (not a DSP processor), but again, not knowing exactly what source is going to be used, that amp is kinda like putting the horse before the cart.

What about the sub and speakers you're considering?

What year and model /trim is the Camry?

 

[Mpbanshee]

1

You will not need an LOC if the amplifier accepts high-level (speaker) inputs.

What you will need is to ensure that the leads you tap into are full-range leads and that the factory HU doesn't have any low-frequency rolloff or other anomalies that OEM head units can have.

I would also save your money on an amp that is going to get it's signal from the OEM HU.

Better to replace the HU with a good quality source unit and another 5-ch amp for the price of that one Kicker.

And that is not a DSP amplifier.

It does have Shockwave 2.0, which is a bass enhancement software algorithm (not a DSP processor), but again, not knowing exactly what source is going to be used, that amp is kinda like putting the horse before the cart.

What about the sub and speakers you're considering?

What year and model /trim is the Camry?

Thank you for the info. Car is 2012 Camry, non-premium sound package. Considering a pair of alpine 6.5 coaxial in the front doors, pair of alpine coaxial 6x9 in rear deck, and a pair of 12” subs in a sealed enclosure (not sure what brand, possibly Punch P3’s or JL audio). The car has Bluetooth, steering wheel controls, etc… so I don’t really want to replace the factory head unit. I’m open to any ideas or suggestions.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

My daughter has a hybrid Camry, and we recently serviced her car. Because she knew I would be commandeering the audio portion of her purchase, she made a "sound" choice, then gave me a budget.

That said, which of these two non-premium head units does your Camry have?

Keep in mind, PAC, iData, Meastro, all make (fairly plug-and-play) harnesses/interfaces for most any headunit you might upgrade to.

These interfaces allow you to reatin100% stearing wheel, infotainment functionality.

Nice to see that it has a CD player, they stopped equipment Toyota's with CD players in 2020.

You can use the factory HU; it's not a deal breaker by any means.

Anyhoo, we ended up installing a 6.8" Kenwood head unit as she wanted front/rear cameras installed.

Assuming you stay with the factory head unit, how much installation experience do you have, and what kind of budget are you looking at, realistically, the absolute most you intend to spend?

I always try to work within the parameters people set, but I don't always manage to stay there. At least I have an overall picture of what the best options are, given any budget constraints.

This is what we did, utilizing the same installation options you are working with.

I'm a fan of the upper Alpine line, but these Sony ES are outstanding in their respective price category. We initially considered going with coaxials all around, then "I" decided (more like convinced my daughter) that we should do the 2-way up front, ended up with extra 6x9s in this build cause I was too lazy to return them within the return period offered)

In the Front dash locations - We did Sony ES XS 2-way components - Sony Mobile ES XS-162ES

For the rears, I wanted to go with Sony ES SX-690ES ( I still have the pair of these that I purchased originally) and ended up with a pair of 6x9 subwoofers (MMATS Pro Audio MBW690) cause she didn't want a big box subwoofer taking up any room in her trunk (broke my heart).

That's where we started, so I need to know the budget before I can go much further.

 

[Mpbanshee]

My daughter has a hybrid Camry, and we recently serviced her car. Because she knew I would be commandeering the audio portion of her purchase, she made a "sound" choice, then gave me a budget.

That said, which of these two non-premium head units does your Camry have?

View attachment 71676

Keep in mind, PAC, iData, Meastro, all make (fairly plug-and-play) harnesses/interfaces for most any headunit you might upgrade to.

These interfaces allow you to reatin100% stearing wheel, infotainment functionality.

Nice to see that it has a CD player, they stopped equipment Toyota's with CD players in 2020.

You can use the factory HU; it's not a deal breaker by any means.

Anyhoo, we ended up installing a 6.8" Kenwood head unit as she wanted front/rear cameras installed.

Assuming you stay with the factory head unit, how much installation experience do you have, and what kind of budget are you looking at, realistically, the absolute most you intend to spend?

I always try to work within the parameters people set, but I don't always manage to stay there. At least I have an overall picture of what the best options are, given any budget constraints.

This is what we did, utilizing the same installation options you are working with.

I'm a fan of the upper Alpine line, but these Sony ES are outstanding in their respective price category. We initially considered going with coaxials all around, then "I" decided (more like convinced my daughter) that we should do the 2-way up front, ended up with extra 6x9s in this build cause I was too lazy to return them within the return period offered)

In the Front dash locations - We did Sony ES XS 2-way components - Sony Mobile ES XS-162ES

For the rears, I wanted to go with Sony ES SX-690ES ( I still have the pair of these that I purchased originally) and ended up with a pair of 6x9 subwoofers (MMATS Pro Audio MBW690) cause she didn't want a big box subwoofer taking up any room in her trunk (broke my heart).

That's where we started, so I need to know the budget before I can go much further.

 

[Mpbanshee]

Thank you for your input. Mine is the model with the larger screen. Budget is around $2,500. I was very much into car audio in my early 20’s but that was 25+ years ago and things have changed drastically. I’m not a professional, but am am fairly mechanically inclined. Looking at adding amp, door speakers, rear dash speakers, and 2 subs. Not sure about whether to even use the front dash speaker locations. Any thoughts or input are appreciated.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Dash locations can be very good, actually.

Are you familiar with any of the DSP options out there?

Are we shooting for a tiny installation footprint, full front and rear sound, differential rear fill, no fill, all front stage, lots of options...

So, start at the front.

2-way, 3-way front stage.

So for me, I'm primarily the only person in the car, save for a couple of times a year. I'm doing a build right now that has dual systems, front and rear, designed so that I can turn the entire back end off and concentrate on just the front end; it's just me.

It's a bit elaborate, and similar setups can be done with the use of DSP processors that have the ability to tune and save multiple playback scenarios.

Driver, driver plus passenger seat, plus passenger and rear seats, lots of options there too.

I will say this: if you're absolutely new to DSP and are not willing to learn how to use it or are unwilling to pay someone handsomely to do it remotely (starting at around $500 per tune), then let's stick to a decent head unit that can do a lot of that with an included mic that provides you EQ capability and time alignment.

If you don't want to replace the head unit, and still want to consider a DSP-controlled setup, there are several options there as well, such as fairly easy, entry-level DSP amplifiers (that are nothing to slouch at, on the contrary) that have built-in DSP from some very respectable manufacturers.

Then if I have passengers, bam, flip a switch on, and the 3-way back end goes. I don;t want to tell you what I have tied up in this build, it's embarrassing!

2.5k is a respectable budget.

3-way front in would look something like 6.5" midbass in the doors, 2-3.5" mid and tweeters, or a coaxial 3.5" up front in the dash, and a 6.5" in the doors - that's a great option, lifts the stage in front and center of the dash, really great sounding. like a big set of headphones!

As for the subs, bass-head or connoisseur of the finer things that SQ can bring to the table, or a little bit of both, like me.

What are your music preferences?

As long as you've been away from the scene, lots to look at so keep an open mind on brands.

I returned to the scene after about 6 years away, before 35 years in home theater and car audio as a hobbyist, PNW Focal rep 94-98, been around the block more than a few times.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

BTW, know anyone in Henry County?

 

[Mpbanshee]

Dash locations can be very good, actually.

Are you familiar with any of the DSP options out there?

Are we shooting for a tiny installation footprint, full front and rear sound, differential rear fill, no fill, all front stage, lots of options...

So, start at the front.

2-way, 3-way front stage.

So for me, I'm primarily the only person in the car, save for a couple of times a year. I'm doing a build right now that has dual systems, front and rear, designed so that I can turn the entire back end off and concentrate on just the front end; it's just me.

It's a bit elaborate, and similar setups can be done with the use of DSP processors that have the ability to tune and save multiple playback scenarios.

Driver, driver plus passenger seat, plus passenger and rear seats, lots of options there too.

I will say this: if you're absolutely new to DSP and are not willing to learn how to use it or are unwilling to pay someone handsomely to do it remotely (starting at around $500 per tune), then let's stick to a decent head unit that can do a lot of that with an included mic that provides you EQ capability and time alignment.

If you don't want to replace the head unit, and still want to consider a DSP-controlled setup, there are several options there as well, such as fairly easy, entry-level DSP amplifiers (that are nothing to slouch at, on the contrary) that have built-in DSP from some very respectable manufacturers.

Then if I have passengers, bam, flip a switch on, and the 3-way back end goes. I don;t want to tell you what I have tied up in this build, it's embarrassing!

2.5k is a respectable budget.

3-way front in would look something like 6.5" midbass in the doors, 2-3.5" mid and tweeters, or a coaxial 3.5" up front in the dash, and a 6.5" in the doors - that's a great option, lifts the stage in front and center of the dash, really great sounding. like a big set of headphones!

As for the subs, bass-head or connoisseur of the finer things that SQ can bring to the table, or a little bit of both, like me.

What are your music preferences?

As long as you've been away from the scene, lots to look at so keep an open mind on brands.

I returned to the scene after about 6 years away, before 35 years in home theater and car audio as a hobbyist, PNW Focal rep 94-98, been around the block more than a few times.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

Thank you so much. I think I’ve decided to go with an atlftermarkrt head unit, probably Kenwood Exxelon. How would I wire up 6 coaxial speakers (plus sub) with a 5 channel amp.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You wouldn't, normally, where did you come up with 6 coaxials?

 

[Mpbanshee]

You wouldn't, normally, where did you come up with 6 coaxials?

6x9’s in the rear deck, 6.5’s in the front doors, and 3.5’s in the front dash corners.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Ah, so there is a conundrum, of sorts.

6x9 coax's in the rear, done.

Up front, things get a little more interesting.

You don't want to run multiple tweeters in a front stage; it's not good.

I would run 6.5" midbass in the doors, crossed (HP filter) between 70-80 and (LP filter) at 350Hz.

That takes two channels.

Then, I'd run the 3.5 coaxials in the dash (which all come with caps, passive crossovers on the tweeters, so they are accounted for), on another set of channels that cross using an HP filter from the head unit or the amp at 350Hz.

That's 6 channels of amplification for the front and the rear fill.

Then I'd get a couple of 12s for the trunk.

Then a monblock subwoofer amp. So 7 channels of amplification, 2 amplifiers.

It's doable on a 5-channel amp, but it changes the front stage (not a terrible thing at all, a little less height).

Are you set on a single amplifier?

On a 5-channel system, you would run 2-way components up front, tweeters in the dash, 6.5s in the doors, split by a passive crossover, 2 channels of amplification, 2 more channels to the rear 6x9s, then the 5th is the monoblock channel, and this is totally doable as well.

I have a very good option for this if you want to keep it simple, seriously, not an issue.

Just let me know if that is the way you want to go

 

[Mpbanshee]

Ah, so there is a conundrum, of sorts.

6x9 coax's in the rear, done.

Up front, things get a little more interesting.

You don't want to run multiple tweeters in a front stage; it's not good.

I would run 6.5" midbass in the doors, crossed (HP filter) between 70-80 and (LP filter) at 350Hz.

That takes two channels.

Then, I'd run the 3.5 coaxials in the dash (which all come with caps, passive crossovers on the tweeters, so they are accounted for), on another set of channels that cross using an HP filter from the head unit or the amp at 350Hz.

That's 6 channels of amplification for the front and the rear fill.

Then I'd get a couple of 12s for the trunk.

Then a monblock subwoofer amp. So 7 channels of amplification, 2 amplifiers.

It's doable on a 5-channel amp, but it changes the front stage (not a terrible thing at all, a little less height).

Are you set on a single amplifier?

On a 5-channel system, you would run 2-way components up front, tweeters in the dash, 6.5s in the doors, split by a passive crossover, 2 channels of amplification, 2 more channels to the rear 6x9s, then the 5th is the monoblock channel, and this is totally doable as well.

I have a very good option for this if you want to keep it simple, seriously, not an issue.

Just let me know if that is the way you want to go

I think I want to stick with a single amp (5 channel). I like the idea of 2-way components up front (6.5 mid in doors and tweets in dash). What’s your opinion on running all new speaker wire from the amp to all the new speakers, vs using the factory speaker wiring?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

That works too.

I ALWAYS run new wire and leave the factory wire and connectors intact, which makes it easy to put the OEM stuff back in should you sell the car.

This is the OFC copper wire I run to components and coaxial speakers.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLXYM8WD/?tag=caraudiocom-20

This is a good buy on OFC copper wire for the subs.

Amazon.com

If you want to keep all the infotainment and steering wheel functions with the new head unit, you'll need some specialized harnesses from Meastro and iDatalink. Check with Crutchfield as to what you'll need, then check with me if you decide to go this route. I have a couple of items like the Meastro RR left over from my daughter's build, and could save you a good amount of money since they are vehicle-specific.

As for speakers, also have a pair of the Mobile ES 6x9 coaxials from that build (normally $275 to $350 a pair) that I'd drop for $200.00.

The front components would be the Sony Mobile ES-162ES - they'll set you back around $350- $400 a pair, but this particular Sony lineup is superb-sounding gear.

Sony Mobile ES XS-162ES
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3068908207...EATj9PNe1LbQwkKEV5sgj0kZA=|tkp:Bk9SR5Dlg6PCZw

Check with @Sakekura for reference, he purchased the 6.5" coaxials we didn't use as we went with the components up front instead.

​

As for an amplifier, a couple of options.
The Recoil RED1800.5 is the budget king in 5-channel amps, and it's a decent amplifier. 140 x 4 and 1280 watts x 1 at 1 ohm, hard to beat for the money.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZ8882ZD/?tag=caraudiocom-20
A step up (and worth the extra) would be the CT Sounds CT-1500.5 D, with a first-time or email sign-up, 11% off, and since I was going there for a pair of loaded 12's, a contender for sure. $239.00

CT-1500.5D // 1800 Watts RMS 5-Channel Car Amplifier

The CT Sounds CT-1500.5D is a compact full-range class d 5-channel car amplifier. The 5-ch car audio amplifier features a Low Pass Filter (LPF), High Pass Filter (HPF), and Bass Boost so you can get the exact sound you want out of your amplifier.

www.ctsounds.com

And this to complement, same 11% discount, $339.00:

TROPO-2X12D4 // Dual 12” 2600W Loaded Ported Car Subwoofer Box

The CT Sounds TROPO-2X12D4 is a loaded dual 12” ported car subwoofer box that comes with two of our TROPO-12-D4 1300-watt max power 12-inch car subwoofers pre-installed and pre-wired internally to a 1-ohm final impedance.

www.ctsounds.com

At $1180.00 so far, that leaves $1320.00 left for the head unit, adapters and wiring, sound deadening, and other installation items needed.

This would be a pretty significant system and still fits both the budget and the stock electrical system.

Crutchfield has some good deals on Kenwood digital multimedia and CD/DVD head units, and so does eBay. Just depends on whether or not you play CDs/DVDs or not.