- Thread Starter
- #16
I wasn't doing it over and over i did it once when initially setting the gain i was just describing what happened when i did in case someone had not read above adreesing all areas of my problem. I'm not a moron.
My System Is In?...Help
- Thread starter myname1588
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j3bus2k3
5,000+ posts
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Granted I still dont think you know what your doing...turn the bass boost OFF, set your gains properly with a DMM, do the big 3 and get a new (or second) battery...
- Thread Starter
- #18
Ok I'll do that i have a second battery already just did not have enough 1/0 gauge wire so im gonna get more tomorrow and a cap and soon enough a more powerful alternator. Thanks for the help though i could havedone without the insults.
- Thread Starter
- #20
Funny I think my foot would be more effective up your... j/k man but how high of an amp output should i look for in an alternator 200 or more?
Way to complete a sentence. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Did you text that in from your phone?
Battery will help in the short term. Big three is a good idea & should be done. But seriously, unless you're driving a semi you can't put a 2500w amp in & expect the stock electrical system to keep up.
Don't know what car you're driving, but I'd say add up the fuses on your amps & add 70-90 (depending on accessories - HID's, seat heaters, etc), that's the alternator output you should have.
fuses on the amp should never be used for finding anything out for electrical upgrades. i would go with at least 200. the higher the better but it all depends on how much you want to spend.
The fuses on the amp are an excellent indicator of each amp's max current draw. By totaling them, you know exactly how much current the system could potentially draw. Where's the problem with that? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif
Avg car requires about 60a to operate, sometimes up to 90a+ with hi-draw accessories, so that has to be worked in too.
Do you have a better system that doesn't require an in-line ampmeter? I'd love to know it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif
It'd be great to just put in a 300a alt & cover all the bases but that's pretty imprecise & crazy expensive.
Nah, just have trouble digesting poor communication skills. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Big 3 & upgrading/adding batteries are great but none of them produce power.
What exactly do I need to learn about a car's electrical system?
If your system wants 120a & the car wants another 70a, there's just no way for a 90a alternator to fuel that for any sustained period.
If you want 2500w of bass, fine, but factor in an alt, battery & big 3 into the cost. Otherwise you'll have problems like described. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif:veryhapp:
an alt is no where near 100% out put 100% of the time. meaning that unless you are driving 65 miles an hour 100% of the time a 300 amp alt will probably only be 280 or so amps so there. that is the trade off of it being hi output......at idle unless you use a shorter pulley or crank up idle rpm the alt will only be 30-50% power (50% power if you do the mods needed and even less than 30 if you just throw it on.) when you do the mods needed to make the electrical better and you don't moderate how you do so it can add alot of unneeded stress to the alt AND the car. a high output alt being used heavily wont have the same life span. alot of high output alts put out less power at idle than a factory alt as well. EVEN when installed correctly
music isn't a constant draw output of an alt isn't constant and is more Dependant with your speed than just a whim of turning up a volume knob. so when a system is being pushed it is still more than likely the alt/battery is spending more time charging than you think. the voltage drops are there from peaks it cant cover.
a little common sense tells me if we have a power source now that can cover the load but at the same time have a greater variance to its average output that somewhere along the lines extra support will be needed (extra battery/batteries). an alt is designed to work with a battery as it filters an alts output. take the battery out of the electrical system your lights would dim, get really bright then your voltage regulator would go up into smoke. also somewhere it should click in if a battery wasnt that important and the alt did all the work then a battery in a car could be alot smaller.
sorry if you can't or don't understand it but oh well i can read run ons and i can make sense out of about anything but for someone that types REALLY plain and simple sentences that are at best vague im glad i confuse you... lol
music isn't a constant draw output of an alt isn't constant and is more Dependant with your speed than just a whim of turning up a volume knob. so when a system is being pushed it is still more than likely the alt/battery is spending more time charging than you think. the voltage drops are there from peaks it cant cover.
a little common sense tells me if we have a power source now that can cover the load but at the same time have a greater variance to its average output that somewhere along the lines extra support will be needed (extra battery/batteries). an alt is designed to work with a battery as it filters an alts output. take the battery out of the electrical system your lights would dim, get really bright then your voltage regulator would go up into smoke. also somewhere it should click in if a battery wasnt that important and the alt did all the work then a battery in a car could be alot smaller.
sorry if you can't or don't understand it but oh well i can read run ons and i can make sense out of about anything but for someone that types REALLY plain and simple sentences that are at best vague im glad i confuse you... lol
Myname1588-
I would check to see what the load you are giving the amp. You are running 2 subs to 1 amp correct? If the subs are dual coils and let's say they are dual 2 ohm coils, and you are using both coils on each sub then the amp is seeing a .5 ohm load.
I ran 2 2500 watt RMS amps off my stock electrical system (120 amp alt ) without dimming or the amps going into protection
1st you need to make sure the coil configuration is within the specs of the amp you are using
2nd I would go with a pair of Batteries. This only helps to stabalize your voltage dip, if it is severe this won't be enough.
3rd you need to do the big 3 upgrade to you alt using at least 1/0 awg wire.
4th you need to understand how to set gains on your amps. You need to have the bass boost off and you need to have your eq set to the parameters that you want before attempting to set the gain. I would use an O-scope but if you don't have one (and I am sure you don't, not many do) Use the DMM, but only one that is true RMS reading. The following is a good breakdown on how to set your gains.
" This is a Tutorial on proper settings of an amplifiers gain structure.
First a little knowledge on the gain and what it does. A common misconception is that the gain is like a volume knob, or another one is that ½ way equals 50% power, and all the way equals 100%. These are not true, the gain is a level matching device, to allow you to match the signal being sent from your cd player, and create the most amount of power, without clipping which is the cause of distortion and excess heat to the voice coil. With most newer cd players being at least 4 volt outputs or more, there isn’t a need to turn the gains up as high as with, a 2 or even 1 volt RCA preouts. We will show you what clipping sounds like, and what it visually looks like at the end of the presentation.
We will first start with the items needed:
A digital multi meter or DMM , they can be purchased at a Radio Shack, automotive parts store, or Walmart in the automotive department, for usually around $15-20 dollars. The multi meter is a basic trouble shooting device that all 12-volt mobile electronics enthusiasts should have.
A screwdriver, or other device for adjusting the settings on the amp.
A cd with test tones, a 50hz 0-db, for setting of the gain on a sub-woofer amp, and a 150 Hz for setting the gains the other speakers in the vehicle, and then a tone for setting your crossovers. This tone is dependent on where you decide you want your amplifier crossed over at. For example. If you want to low pass your sub-woofers at 80hz. You will need an 80hz 0 db tone. If you want to lowpass them at 65hz, then a 65hz 0 db tone is needed.
Next we will be using a basic formula to figure out where the gain needs to be set.
For this you need to know how much power your amplifier is rated at.
We will use a 2 channel nine.2. It is rated at 400 watts by 1 at 4 ohms when bridged.
The formula is sq root of Watts x resistance(ohm load)
400 watts by 4 ohm is 1600 then we find the sq root of 1600 which is equal to 40
We now know that 40 volts is equal to 400 watts.
This 40 volts will be found with the DMM.
Now we will begin.
The first step is to turn your cd player on. Then set any boost settings, or eq setting to 0 or flat, turn bass boost or loudness features off.
If your cd player has crossover settings, and you decide to use those over the amplifiers, I suggest you turn those on now. A sub-woofer low pass setting should be no higher than 120hz, we recommend 80hz or lower, depending on listening preference. The high pass on the rest of the speakers in the vehicle should be around the same point as the low pass. For explanation purposes we will use 80hz today.
If you have more than one amp in the vehicle, I recommend you unhook the amps not being set. This will prevent any damage to the other speakers in the vehicle.
The next step is to go to the amplifier and set the x over setting to full. If using a mono block amp such as a nine, turn the crossover all the way up so it does not affect the signal.
Then proceed to make sure the gain is turned all the way down.
You will then hook the DMM up to the speaker terminals with the speaker wire in them, one in the positive one in the negative. You will keep the speakers connected during the process.
The dmm will need to be turned on, and set to voltage ac, your DMM owners manual should explain to you where voltage AC is at. As for the number settings, you will want to have the decimal place at a hundredth, for example 00.00
Since we are testing the nine.2 bridged for a sub-woofer. I will be using the 50hz tone. If setting the gain for upper frequency drivers the 150hz tone will be used.
Insert the tone cd and then proceed to turn the cd player volume to 75%. If using stock speakers running off the cd player, then turn it up to where they start to distort, and then down a little bit.
Turn the 0 db 50hz tone onto repeat.
With the DMM running, slowly turn the gains up, you will notice the voltage increase, slowly turn the gain up until 40 volts is reached.
With the 40volts being reached the speaker is seeing 400 watts. You can then stop the tone and turn the cd player down.
Now if you are using the amplifiers crossovers, we will be setting these now. Since we have a sub-woofer hooked up, we will turn the crossover to Low pass filter, or LPF. The LPF dial will then be turned all the way up. Since we decided to cross the sub over at 80 Hz, we will throw the 80hz tone into the cd player, we will then turn the volume up a little bit, so the sub is noticeable, no need to be turned up all the way. Put on repeat.
The LPF dial will be slowly turned down until the sub-woofer starts to not play the tone with the intensity it did before, The sub-woofer will not stop completely playing the tone, but it will get quieter. You will then slightly turn the crossover back until the speaker is playing with all intensity again. You are then crossed over around 80hz.
The same goes for a other speakers playing your upper frequency range, only you will want to set the amp to high pass filter or HPF, and use the HPF dial.
Now that your gain and crossover is set properly the chance of damaging your speaker and amps is cut significantly, but you need to remember, a lot of music today is recorded with clipping, so you still need to be careful and watch for signs of driver stress. "
As for the Alt. Yes I would check that out too. The following is a way for you to determine what size alt you will need.
" Calculating Amplifier Current Demands
By using the total fuse values of the amplifier, you can get an idea of the amount of current draw that will be demanded under full output power. Although the full output rating is good to determine the total amperage draw in the system, it does not represent the true continuous or averaged amperage draw in the system. Listed below is a simple way to determine the approximate continuous current draw of your amplifier.
1. Determine total fuse value of the amplifier. (Many Amplifiers have multiple fuses built in, simply add the values of all fuses.)
2. Divide the RMS power rating by the Peak power rating.
Example: 50 Watts RMS Divided by 100 Watts Peak Power = .50 (50%)
Once you figure the percentage of RMS vs. Peak power, you multiply the fuse value of the amplifiers by the RMS percentage.
For Example: If the amplifiers fuse value were 30A, then 30A multiplied by 50% would be 15A of continuous current draw."
PM me or email me at mmr@knology.net if you need more help
I would check to see what the load you are giving the amp. You are running 2 subs to 1 amp correct? If the subs are dual coils and let's say they are dual 2 ohm coils, and you are using both coils on each sub then the amp is seeing a .5 ohm load.
I ran 2 2500 watt RMS amps off my stock electrical system (120 amp alt ) without dimming or the amps going into protection
1st you need to make sure the coil configuration is within the specs of the amp you are using
2nd I would go with a pair of Batteries. This only helps to stabalize your voltage dip, if it is severe this won't be enough.
3rd you need to do the big 3 upgrade to you alt using at least 1/0 awg wire.
4th you need to understand how to set gains on your amps. You need to have the bass boost off and you need to have your eq set to the parameters that you want before attempting to set the gain. I would use an O-scope but if you don't have one (and I am sure you don't, not many do) Use the DMM, but only one that is true RMS reading. The following is a good breakdown on how to set your gains.
" This is a Tutorial on proper settings of an amplifiers gain structure.
First a little knowledge on the gain and what it does. A common misconception is that the gain is like a volume knob, or another one is that ½ way equals 50% power, and all the way equals 100%. These are not true, the gain is a level matching device, to allow you to match the signal being sent from your cd player, and create the most amount of power, without clipping which is the cause of distortion and excess heat to the voice coil. With most newer cd players being at least 4 volt outputs or more, there isn’t a need to turn the gains up as high as with, a 2 or even 1 volt RCA preouts. We will show you what clipping sounds like, and what it visually looks like at the end of the presentation.
We will first start with the items needed:
A digital multi meter or DMM , they can be purchased at a Radio Shack, automotive parts store, or Walmart in the automotive department, for usually around $15-20 dollars. The multi meter is a basic trouble shooting device that all 12-volt mobile electronics enthusiasts should have.
A screwdriver, or other device for adjusting the settings on the amp.
A cd with test tones, a 50hz 0-db, for setting of the gain on a sub-woofer amp, and a 150 Hz for setting the gains the other speakers in the vehicle, and then a tone for setting your crossovers. This tone is dependent on where you decide you want your amplifier crossed over at. For example. If you want to low pass your sub-woofers at 80hz. You will need an 80hz 0 db tone. If you want to lowpass them at 65hz, then a 65hz 0 db tone is needed.
Next we will be using a basic formula to figure out where the gain needs to be set.
For this you need to know how much power your amplifier is rated at.
We will use a 2 channel nine.2. It is rated at 400 watts by 1 at 4 ohms when bridged.
The formula is sq root of Watts x resistance(ohm load)
400 watts by 4 ohm is 1600 then we find the sq root of 1600 which is equal to 40
We now know that 40 volts is equal to 400 watts.
This 40 volts will be found with the DMM.
Now we will begin.
The first step is to turn your cd player on. Then set any boost settings, or eq setting to 0 or flat, turn bass boost or loudness features off.
If your cd player has crossover settings, and you decide to use those over the amplifiers, I suggest you turn those on now. A sub-woofer low pass setting should be no higher than 120hz, we recommend 80hz or lower, depending on listening preference. The high pass on the rest of the speakers in the vehicle should be around the same point as the low pass. For explanation purposes we will use 80hz today.
If you have more than one amp in the vehicle, I recommend you unhook the amps not being set. This will prevent any damage to the other speakers in the vehicle.
The next step is to go to the amplifier and set the x over setting to full. If using a mono block amp such as a nine, turn the crossover all the way up so it does not affect the signal.
Then proceed to make sure the gain is turned all the way down.
You will then hook the DMM up to the speaker terminals with the speaker wire in them, one in the positive one in the negative. You will keep the speakers connected during the process.
The dmm will need to be turned on, and set to voltage ac, your DMM owners manual should explain to you where voltage AC is at. As for the number settings, you will want to have the decimal place at a hundredth, for example 00.00
Since we are testing the nine.2 bridged for a sub-woofer. I will be using the 50hz tone. If setting the gain for upper frequency drivers the 150hz tone will be used.
Insert the tone cd and then proceed to turn the cd player volume to 75%. If using stock speakers running off the cd player, then turn it up to where they start to distort, and then down a little bit.
Turn the 0 db 50hz tone onto repeat.
With the DMM running, slowly turn the gains up, you will notice the voltage increase, slowly turn the gain up until 40 volts is reached.
With the 40volts being reached the speaker is seeing 400 watts. You can then stop the tone and turn the cd player down.
Now if you are using the amplifiers crossovers, we will be setting these now. Since we have a sub-woofer hooked up, we will turn the crossover to Low pass filter, or LPF. The LPF dial will then be turned all the way up. Since we decided to cross the sub over at 80 Hz, we will throw the 80hz tone into the cd player, we will then turn the volume up a little bit, so the sub is noticeable, no need to be turned up all the way. Put on repeat.
The LPF dial will be slowly turned down until the sub-woofer starts to not play the tone with the intensity it did before, The sub-woofer will not stop completely playing the tone, but it will get quieter. You will then slightly turn the crossover back until the speaker is playing with all intensity again. You are then crossed over around 80hz.
The same goes for a other speakers playing your upper frequency range, only you will want to set the amp to high pass filter or HPF, and use the HPF dial.
Now that your gain and crossover is set properly the chance of damaging your speaker and amps is cut significantly, but you need to remember, a lot of music today is recorded with clipping, so you still need to be careful and watch for signs of driver stress. "
As for the Alt. Yes I would check that out too. The following is a way for you to determine what size alt you will need.
" Calculating Amplifier Current Demands
By using the total fuse values of the amplifier, you can get an idea of the amount of current draw that will be demanded under full output power. Although the full output rating is good to determine the total amperage draw in the system, it does not represent the true continuous or averaged amperage draw in the system. Listed below is a simple way to determine the approximate continuous current draw of your amplifier.
1. Determine total fuse value of the amplifier. (Many Amplifiers have multiple fuses built in, simply add the values of all fuses.)
2. Divide the RMS power rating by the Peak power rating.
Example: 50 Watts RMS Divided by 100 Watts Peak Power = .50 (50%)
Once you figure the percentage of RMS vs. Peak power, you multiply the fuse value of the amplifiers by the RMS percentage.
For Example: If the amplifiers fuse value were 30A, then 30A multiplied by 50% would be 15A of continuous current draw."
PM me or email me at mmr@knology.net if you need more help
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