Multile door speakers in same door ? (front stage)

[AshleyOU]

I have in the past tried to do a nicer set of 6.5 inch speakers in the front door while ignoring rear fill. Didn't really work out, wasn't enough output and I always would get to the point to where I was maxing the drivers out. Front speakers I used in my last build was JBL MS-62C (which I hated, was too harsh) followed by Ground Zero Uranium 650q which I loved but wasn't quite enough output)

What is the best approach to get more output in the front ? Should I modify the doors to where I can fit 2 sets of 6.5s ? Should I do a modification to where it's only 1 set but its 6x9 instead ?

Curious to hear from users here who have had loud substages and needed to work hard on the front to keep up.

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[blazian87 10+ year member]

What vehicle is this for? What amp are you using to run the 2 way front stage? You might not be running enough power which is why it feels like you're maxing out your speakers. Other options to get louder are also ditching the passive crossover and running active with a DSP. If you want to take it to the next level, you can think about adding a midrange to your 2 way and making it a 3 way front stage.

 

[AshleyOU]

What vehicle is this for?

The previous 2 speaker sets where for a 2005 Civic but the new build is for a low mileage 2012 Corolla

What amp are you using to run the 2 way front stage? You might not be running enough power which is why it feels like you're maxing out your speakers

For the JBL set I was using a PPI 900.4 (145RMS per channel). When I replaced those with the Ground zero set I switched to a 2 channel Soundqubed amp that was 220 RMS each channel

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

The previous 2 speaker sets where for a 2005 Civic but the new build is for a low mileage 2012 Corolla
For the JBL set I was using a PPI 900.4 (145RMS per channel). When I replaced those with the Ground zero set I switched to a 2 channel Soundqubed amp that was 220 RMS each channel

wow and still not loud enough? Should be more than plenty on a civic or corolla I would say. Have you applied any deadener or CCF in your doors? That can make or break your install. Also, how did you set your gains on your amp?

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

 

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

I used 4 10" neo mids in my front doors. But how loud is your sub stage?

Are you wanting stupid loud pro audio mids? A single 6.5" pro audio mid can get plenty loud.

 

[AshleyOU]

wow and still not loud enough? Should be more than plenty on a civic or corolla I would say. Have you applied any deadener or CCF in your doors? That can make or break your install. Also, how did you set your gains on your amp?

For my last car I used sound deadener but did not use any sound blocking like MLV or acoustic foam to block outside noise. For the new build I plan on both deadening and blocking the front 2 doors along with the trunk.

But how loud is your sub stage?

Going to do a strong 12 inch sub ported with electrical upgrades. Probably something in the 1000-1500RMS rating and then buy a slighter higher wattage amplifer for some headroom.

 

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

For my last car I used sound deadener but did not use any sound blocking like MLV or acoustic foam to block outside noise. For the new build I plan on both deadening and blocking the front 2 doors along with the trunk.

Going to do a strong 12 inch sub ported with electrical upgrades. Probably something in the 1000-1500RMS rating and then buy a slighter higher wattage amplifer for some headroom.

Shouldn't need anything special to keep up with a single 12". My Silverflutes and CT2 tweeters keep up and more with my single 15 and they are more SQ orientated.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Usually when someone complains their front stage doesn't sound good without rearfill, its a lack of midbass in the front stage. There are multiple ways to increase midbass including more cone area, dedicated midbass drivers, an improved crossover system, and thoroughly sealing the baffle the speaker producing midbass is in (usually the inner door skin).

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I have in the past tried to do a nicer set of 6.5 inch speakers in the front door while ignoring rear fill. Didn't really work out, wasn't enough output and I always would get to the point to where I was maxing the drivers out. Front speakers I used in my last build was JBL MS-62C (which I hated, was too harsh) followed by Ground Zero Uranium 650q which I loved but wasn't quite enough output)

What is the best approach to get more output in the front ? Should I modify the doors to where I can fit 2 sets of 6.5s ? Should I do a modification to where it's only 1 set but its 6x9 instead ?

Curious to hear from users here who have had loud substages and needed to work hard on the front to keep up.

you can start by getting speakers that are much higher sensitivity. the ones you had arent loud for crap lol. Consider a 3 way active front stage. 6.5 Midrange in the kick panels on axis, 6.5 midbass in the doors, and a pair of tweets with at least 92 db sensitivity or higher. the difference between an 89 db sensitivity speaker aka your JBLs(i had the same ones) vs a 92 db sensitivity mid is absolutely planets apart, not miles but PLANETS! Go raw drivers, run active, you wont get anything good out of component speakers sorry to say. the 90 db sensitivity on the ground zero is pretty below mediocre as well. I wouldnt settle for anything under 92 to be honest. Any harshness can be tamed by going active and using proper crossover points to blend the mid and tweet together to smooth any harsh peaks in the overall response.

 

[John Doe]

you can start by getting speakers that are much higher sensitivity. the ones you had arent loud for crap lol. Consider a 3 way active front stage. 6.5 Midrange in the kick panels on axis, 6.5 midbass in the doors, and a pair of tweets with at least 92 db sensitivity or higher. the difference between an 89 db sensitivity speaker aka your JBLs(i had the same ones) vs a 92 db sensitivity mid is absolutely planets apart, not miles but PLANETS! Go raw drivers, run active, you wont get anything good out of component speakers sorry to say. the 90 db sensitivity on the ground zero is pretty below mediocre as well. I wouldnt settle for anything under 92 to be honest. Any harshness can be tamed by going active and using proper crossover points to blend the mid and tweet together to smooth any harsh peaks in the overall response.

When you say raw drivers are you referring to pro audios? I just ordered Focal ISS 165 components to replace my door pods to go a more SQ route. powered by a 1200.4 pioneer amp. That’d be enough right?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

When you say raw drivers are you referring to pro audios? I just ordered Focal ISS 165 components to replace my door pods to go a more SQ route. powered by a 1200.4 pioneer amp. That’d be enough right?

raw drivers are individual drivers you can buy that you can pair up with anything you want picking the best tool for the job vs a premade set that either works with your car acoustics or does not, its like playing the lottery with component sets, either you like the sound or it sounds like **** in your car but sounds good in another person's car... thats acoustics for you. You are literally at the mercy of a luck draw when relying on component speakers with a passive crossover. You need to step up your game and do active networks if you want any real results.

also... Whatever sensitivity specs are on the component is derived from the loudest driver so with your focals, its 92.6 which is pretty good on paper BUT thats the tweeter sensitivity, the mid sensitivity is still around 89 to 90. Same story with your other components. You want to get a dedicated midrange that can play loud and a dedicated midbass that plays deep pair that with a tweeter and an 8 channel DSP and a good tune will get you the results you want.

If that focal has decent midbass, i'd use that as a dedicated midbass and buy a beyma or prv neo or crescendo un 6.5 as some dedicated midrange in your kick panels, toss away the passive crossover, add a dayton dsp and get another 2 channels of amplification and you are set for a really nice 3 way active front that'll sound good and get loud as balls.

btw if you dont like the jbl tweets, the focal tweets will rip through your ears on the passive crossover. They are much stronger than the JBLs and you definitely need a DSP to control that **** especially when most focal mids are crossed around 5khz which has a lot of overlap in frequencies which causes nasty sibilance aka the ssss and shhhh sounds that rip your ear drums..

 

[John Doe]

raw drivers are individual drivers you can buy that you can pair up with anything you want picking the best tool for the job vs a premade set that either works with your car acoustics or does not, its like playing the lottery with component sets, either you like the sound or it sounds like **** in your car but sounds good in another person's car... thats acoustics for you. You are literally at the mercy of a luck draw when relying on component speakers with a passive crossover. You need to step up your game and do active networks if you want any real results.

also... Whatever sensitivity specs are on the component is derived from the loudest driver so with your focals, its 92.6 which is pretty good on paper BUT thats the tweeter sensitivity, the mid sensitivity is still around 89 to 90. Same story with your other components. You want to get a dedicated midrange that can play loud and a dedicated midbass that plays deep pair that with a tweeter and an 8 channel DSP and a good tune will get you the results you want.

If that focal has decent midbass, i'd use that as a dedicated midbass and buy a beyma or prv neo or crescendo un 6.5 as some dedicated midrange in your kick panels, toss away the passive crossover, add a dayton dsp and get another 2 channels of amplification and you are set for a really nice 3 way active front that'll sound good and get loud as balls.

btw if you dont like the jbl tweets, the focal tweets will rip through your ears on the passive crossover. They are much stronger than the JBLs and you definitely need a DSP to control that **** especially when most focal mids are crossed around 5khz which has a lot of overlap in frequencies which causes nasty sibilance aka the ssss and shhhh sounds that rip your ear drums..

raw drivers are individual drivers you can buy that you can pair up with anything you want picking the best tool for the job vs a premade set that either works with your car acoustics or does not, its like playing the lottery with component sets, either you like the sound or it sounds like **** in your car but sounds good in another person's car... thats acoustics for you. You are literally at the mercy of a luck draw when relying on component speakers with a passive crossover. You need to step up your game and do active networks if you want any real results.

Yeah, I was looking into the Dayton 408 DSP. Very informing read as usual lol. Let’s say I do add

also... Whatever sensitivity specs are on the component is derived from the loudest driver so with your focals, its 92.6 which is pretty good on paper BUT thats the tweeter sensitivity, the mid sensitivity is still around 89 to 90. Same story with your other components. You want to get a dedicated midrange that can play loud and a dedicated midbass that plays deep pair that with a tweeter and an 8 channel DSP and a good tune will get you the results you want.

If that focal has decent midbass, i'd use that as a dedicated midbass and buy a beyma or prv neo or crescendo un 6.5 as some dedicated midrange in your kick panels, toss away the passive crossover, add a dayton dsp and get another 2 channels of amplification and you are set for a really nice 3 way active front that'll sound good and get loud as balls.

btw if you dont like the jbl tweets, the focal tweets will rip through your ears on the passive crossover. They are much stronger than the JBLs and you definitely need a DSP to control that **** especially when most focal mids are crossed around 5khz which has a lot of overlap in frequencies which causes nasty sibilance aka the ssss and shhhh sounds that rip your ear drums..

Yeah I was looking into getting a Dayton 408 DSP?
And let’s say I do run a 6.5” UN to make a 3 way front stage, would a B2 1200.6 suffice? And what deadner should i use for the doors?

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

I used 4 10" neo mids in my front doors. But how loud is your sub stage?

Are you wanting stupid loud pro audio mids? A single 6.5" pro audio mid can get plenty loud.

Quick question. Threadjack, sorry. What differentiates a pro audio 6-½" from a regular
6-½"? Is it the sensitivity ratings?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I was looking into getting a Dayton 408 DSP?
And let’s say I do run a 6.5” UN to make a 3 way front stage, would a B2 1200.6 suffice? And what deadner should i use for the doors?

Should be fine, if you have any spare 4 channel amps you can bridge that as well rather than spending more money on unnecessary gear. Most normal deadeners second skin, knu, stinger roadkill etc.. are all fine.. doesnt matter what you choose as long as its not the ebay specials.

Quick question. Threadjack, sorry. What differentiates a pro audio 6-½" from a regular
6-½"? Is it the sensitivity ratings?

yup. Different tools for different purposes. But with a DSP you can meld them together perfectly.