most over-rated sub?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wait two weeks, you'll be unbanned in 14 days.
Or contact the Admin and see if he gets in touch with you faster.
man that *****... you saw the stuff he said to me? how was i supposed to respond to that? and no i did not IM him or PM him on account of the fact that i don't have AIM, well i do but i haven't used my aim in 3 years and don't remeber the password to the account that has a buddy list had to create a new account for Email lol:p:

 
someone tell me if i'm correct here: a sub playing 2 frequencies at the same time is switching back and forth between the 2 frequencies very rapidly and the more rapidly the beter the sounds blend right?

 
LIES LIES LIES! never posted ANY refference to you or addressed you in any way outside of this thread.... guess wat? since you desicided to lie about what i did, and missuse your mod privledges... i contacted the administrator of this forum and someone will be watching you so i wouldn't do anything like you did to me for a while
Right.

Go for it, contact the Admin. I have nothing to hide. Hell I'll create a thread linking to this thread in the backroom when I get home.

I'll continue to do my job, and deal with children like you how I see fit.

-kthnx.

nG

 
He threatened my via AIM, and used A LOT of choice words. Wouldn't leave me alone until I blocked him, then after I blocked him... he created another AIM name and started bothering me again.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Some kids need to grow up, it's just the internet.

nG
so i guess lies like this are your job to create? or mabe to cover up the fact that its your "job" to ban people who you don't like or who don't agree with you...? not seeing your reason for banning me besides spite... something a MODERATOR shouldn't succumb to

 
Here's a USENET post on rec.audio.pro about this very topic:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/122485fabb6aa081/a5e61abf2be6f2e9

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
thanks... but so basically i was right when i sub plays 2 frequencies at the same time it is blending the 2 frequencies to make them sound like 1 kindof like switching back and forth between frequencies very rapidly? so theoretically, if you had a sub playing a 2 hert signal and a 4hz at the same time it would be changing back and forth from 2 to 4 every half a second

 
someone tell me if i'm correct here: a sub playing 2 frequencies at the same time is switching back and forth between the 2 frequencies very rapidly and the more rapidly the beter the sounds blend right?
Nope. The sub should play exactly what it's fed. Switching freqs shouldn't cause any more distortion than playing only one. In fact if you were to actually look at the output of an amp on an o-scope with music playing, you would see nothing but a huge mess. All the freqs do get blended together. Not just in the mixing board, but in the instruments themselves as well. Strumming an open string on a guitar produces the fundamenetal freq as well as the harmonics. It's the harmonics that make the instrument sound real.

Now translate this to speakers. If a speaker can only play one note at a time without distorting, all you ever heard from a set of headphones would be a big mash of distortion. Same with your midranges and tweets. A good driver of any type should be able to play the entire range of its assigned frequencies without distorting or rolling off too much on either end. The only reason you divide freqs up in the first place is because the design that makes a good tweeter (light and stiff transducer that can be moved by a motor with very low inductance) do not make for a good midrange or midwoofer. As frequency decreases the amount of air that must be displaced to keep the same relative SPL increases exponentially. THe limitations that keep large drivers capable of playing low freqs from doing well at higher ones are 1) the inductance of the voicecoil required to move a large cone assembly typically has a fairly high inductance. This causes the impedance of the driver to rise as the frequency increases. The result is less output at higher freqs. 2) The larger a cone is, the heavier is has to be to maintain rigidity. A heavier cone leads us back to problem 1.

Since the ideal of the perfect full range driver is impossible (at least until we can make an infinitely rigid diaphragm driven by a coil with an infinitely small inductance) you have to divide the frequency range up. The problems inherent with that are several. First every division of frequencies done by analog means shifts the phasing of the signal. This can be somewhat overcome by using certain filter designs (as long as you are willing to accept the negatives of that design) or eliminated by going with a digital frequency division network, of which there are a few out there. next you have to consider the phase behavior of the drivers themselves right around the crossover freq. A small difference in output phase can cause cancellation. Again this can be addressed with processing, but the tuning is a pain in the ass and the proper test equipment is neither cheap nor simple to use, not to mention the processors themselves. From there you have to account for pathlength differences which can be fixed with time alignment circuitry (phase response issues cannot be fixed with time alignment since it isn't a time domain issue as it is frequency dependant) but again the time and equipment ot do it right are a pain to use, but at least this time the processor that does the work is realtively widely available and reasonably affordable.

Now that you see the problems caused every time you divide freqs between drivers, you should understand that division where no division is necessary, i.e. dividing the sub-bass between several drivers when any one of them could do the job just as well as the group, adds a level of complication where there is no real gain. The same can be said for the results of adding additional drivers playing the same upper range freqs unless the drivers are either exactly evenly spaced (and I do mean exact) from the listener or each has its own channel of amplification and is time aligned exactly.

thanks... but so basically i was right when i sub plays 2 frequencies at the same time it is blending the 2 frequencies to make them sound like 1 kindof like switching back and forth between frequencies very rapidly? so theoretically, if you had a sub playing a 2 hert signal and a 4hz at the same time it would be changing back and forth from 2 to 4 every half a second
Again, nope. The speaker simply plays them both. There is no switching. One wave form is laid over the top of the other and they combine. The driver plays the result, which as I said above, can look like a real mess on the scope.
 
so i guess lies like this are your job to create? or mabe to cover up the fact that its your "job" to ban people who you don't like or who don't agree with you...? not seeing your reason for banning me besides spite... something a MODERATOR shouldn't succumb to
I've wholeheartedly disagreed with more than a few things that nG has done and called him on them publicly here on the forum.

After discussing it at length he and I basically, each time, simply agreed to continue to disagree and that was that. I've never been banned by him or any other moderator here (though I wondered a time or two if it was going to happen! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif) so that pretty much shoots down your theory of his banning people who disagree with him. I'll be the first person to call BS when I sense it but as of yet, no ban...

 
Nope. The sub should play exactly what it's fed. Switching freqs shouldn't cause any more distortion than playing only one. In fact if you were to actually look at the output of an amp on an o-scope with music playing, you would see nothing but a huge mess. All the freqs do get blended together. Not just in the mixing board, but in the instruments themselves as well. Strumming an open string on a guitar produces the fundamenetal freq as well as the harmonics. It's the harmonics that make the instrument sound real.
Now translate this to speakers. If a speaker can only play one note at a time without distorting, all you ever heard from a set of headphones would be a big mash of distortion. Same with your midranges and tweets. A good driver of any type should be able to play the entire range of its assigned frequencies without distorting or rolling off too much on either end. The only reason you divide freqs up in the first place is because the design that makes a good tweeter (light and stiff transducer that can be moved by a motor with very low inductance) do not make for a good midrange or midwoofer. As frequency decreases the amount of air that must be displaced to keep the same relative SPL increases exponentially. THe limitations that keep large drivers capable of playing low freqs from doing well at higher ones are 1) the inductance of the voicecoil required to move a large cone assembly typically has a fairly high inductance. This causes the impedance of the driver to rise as the frequency increases. The result is less output at higher freqs. 2) The larger a cone is, the heavier is has to be to maintain rigidity. A heavier cone leads us back to problem 1.

Since the ideal of the perfect full range driver is impossible (at least until we can make an infinitely rigid diaphragm driven by a coil with an infinitely small inductance) you have to divide the frequency range up. The problems inherent with that are several. First every division of frequencies done by analog means shifts the phasing of the signal. This can be somewhat overcome by using certain filter designs (as long as you are willing to accept the negatives of that design) or eliminated by going with a digital frequency division network, of which there are a few out there. next you have to consider the phase behavior of the drivers themselves right around the crossover freq. A small difference in output phase can cause cancellation. Again this can be addressed with processing, but the tuning is a pain in the ass and the proper test equipment is neither cheap nor simple to use, not to mention the processors themselves. From there you have to account for pathlength differences which can be fixed with time alignment circuitry (phase response issues cannot be fixed with time alignment since it isn't a time domain issue as it is frequency dependant) but again the time and equipment ot do it right are a pain to use, but at least this time the processor that does the work is realtively widely available and reasonably affordable.

Now that you see the problems caused every time you divide freqs between drivers, you should understand that division where no division is necessary, i.e. dividing the sub-bass between several drivers when any one of them could do the job just as well as the group, adds a level of complication where there is no real gain. The same can be said for the results of adding additional drivers playing the same upper range freqs unless the drivers are either exactly evenly spaced (and I do mean exact) from the listener or each has its own channel of amplification and is time aligned exactly.

Again, nope. The speaker simply plays them both. There is no switching. One wave form is laid over the top of the other and they combine. The driver plays the result, which as I said above, can look like a real mess on the scope.
the mulitiple high range drivers are simply to keep up with the amount of bass not from a sq perspective if i were to go sq i would disconnect 2 sets...

i'll accept all that^^^... but would you agree that price and tuning difficulty aside... it is POSSIBLE to get better(even marginaly better) subbass reproduction out of more than 1 size of sub

 
I've wholeheartedly disagreed with more than a few things that nG has done and called him on them publicly here on the forum.
After discussing it at length he and I basically, each time, simply agreed to continue to disagree and that was that. I've never been banned by him or any other moderator here (though I wondered a time or two if it was going to happen! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif) so that pretty much shoots down your theory of his banning people who disagree with him. I'll be the first person to call BS when I sense it but as of yet, no ban...
reguardless... he DID lie, and DID ban me

edit: what you see on this thread is the extent of the conversation between me and ng... nothing else, watsoever

 
the mulitiple high range drivers are simply to keep up with the amount of bass not from a sq perspective if i were to go sq i would disconnect 2 sets...i'll accept all that^^^... but would you agree that price and tuning difficulty aside... it is POSSIBLE to get better(even marginaly better) subbass reproduction out of more than 1 size of sub

Yeah, but even if you did that, why not just use the same size subs?

 
Yeah, but even if you did that, why not just use the same size subs?
you very well could but.. (this is where my reasoning very well may be wrong)... the different size subs have different resonance and will play different frequencies more "natureally" IE: a sub the size of a large drum will roduce the sound of that drum better than a small drum.... likewise a small sub reproduce sound of a small drum better.... i know that they CAN cover the whole spectrum... but my way is simply: not MAKING them cover the whole specturm.... and if they have less work to do, they should do the work that they DO have better

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...

Similar threads

That would be a function of the harness, not the HU, I think. Have you looked into a Maestro or iData interface? i would check with crutchfield...
12
377
thanks DB, that definitely helps swallowing a $300 price tag 😂 these would essentially be running midbass for me too
12
407
What is your budget? With being exposed to Rain.. I would recommend looking at a marine grade SAS Bazooka for the sub stage
3
544
Don't forget Hoffman's Iron Law. You can have 2 of the 3: low end, efficiency/sensitivity or small enclosure size...
4
646

About this thread

cotjones

10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
Thread starter
cotjones
Joined
Location
Wilmington, NC
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
305
Views
15,057
Last reply date
Last reply from
ngsm13
Screenshot_20240524_202505_Samsung Internet.jpg

winkychevelle

    May 24, 2024
  • 0
  • 0
Screenshot_20240523-151806.png

1aespinoza

    May 23, 2024
  • 0
  • 0

New threads

Top