Mag v4 Production complete

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

it started out that way last gen too...

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

it started out that way last gen too...

that was online on the preorders I thought? that was so long ago my memory is kinda fuzzy

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

it started out that way last gen too...

Nick is going back to the direct business model.

 

[02parkave 5,000+ posts]

Nick is going back to the direct business model.

THANK GOD. i do applaud taht decision

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

THANK GOD. i do applaud taht decision

indeed.

 

[02parkave 5,000+ posts]

WAS low-hz an authorized reseller? i remember him pimping them pretty hard

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

Yes, he's going direct.

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

so let me ask you directly- are YOU saying that you spent some serious time on this driver as this is "what the mag is about"? if so.. were all the previous mags inferior? or were they shoddy design? where you simply throwing something out there and letting the hype carry you? whats the deal mang?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Previous Mags were crap, I was just riding the hype. Honda's 2005 Accords were total crap piles because their later models (2006, 2007, 2008, etc) just had improvements. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Intel just sold crap with the 486, and original Pentiums since they clearly sold better processors this year.

Yes, that is sarcasm.

Have you ever heard of product improvement? Raising the bar? Do you believe the first, second, etc, offerings ANY company has is the pinnacle their design abilities will ever yield?

The original Mags were great. But rather than sit on our laurels - which you seem to espouse - we kept sweating, working, learning and came up with something even better.

and on an aside.. it ALMOST seems as if Mr. Morgan knows more about the topology than you.. not saying its true, just gives me a chuckle

Actually, Mr. Morgan is pretty wrong about his understanding of magnetics in general and XBL in specific. I'll take the word of my engineering team who not only helped with my driver, but works for companies like Microsoft, Dell, Harman, Event Electronics, Mackie, Ford, Tymphany, and many more. Companies that have thousands of top-flight engineers but still hire these guys because they are the experts in their field.

I suppose we forgot how much stray flux is created we get when we do a 3-6 stack 8-10mm plates of varying ID's that are stamped out and glued together (every where there is a joint there is an air gap of glue between the plates which also causes stray flux all the way around the motor) instead of doing it the 'right' way instead of casting 1 piece?

You create ZERO stray flux when you stack the top plates. You may increase the reluctance of the motor from potential air gaps, but that is nothing to do with stray flux. A basic understanding of electromagnetics will confirm this to be the case.

In fact, magnetic flux SEEKS OUT magnetically conductive material like steel (or magnet) to flow within, rather than air. Stray flux happens when there is either saturation and the flux must flow in other paths, or the

reluctance through the air is less than the reluctance through the steel.

Nick - from a flux standpoint - a stacked top plate and a stacked magnet set are identical. Does having all those double and triple stack magnets cause excess stray flux? If not, then what is the difference from having a triple stack magnet with a single piece top plate or a single stack magnet with a two piece top plate?

What about the air gap between the magnet and the back plate? Or the air gap between the magnet and the top plate? Do they "spray flux" as well? Those are all air gaps as you put. The key is to keep the volume of air between either - magnets or top plate parts - to a minimum. Minimize the air volume, you minimize the reluctance, and you do not affect the total flux flow. And stray flux isn't even in the

equation...

The proof is in the pudding - measurements of BL show that the models match reality to within a few percent, and are accurate for either stacked or non-stacked motor systems.

Now, talking about spraying windex, stray flux, and parabolic form, I would venture to say your models are wrong, you don't know what you're doing, or purposely gaming the models. The most you can claim is that at a free corner there is stray flux. However, that is not the case when you keep tolerances to minimum.

Casting a notch out of a top plate from a design stand point is much better because it is one solid piece with no air gaps for flux to dance around randomly...

Flux does not "dance around randomly". It will flow from pole to pole by the path of least reluctance. Like current flows on the path of least resistance. There is nothing random about it - your claim otherwise shows

that you do not understand the way magnetics really work.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go pack so I can move into another house. If you'd like further clarification on anything I've posted I can do so at a later time.

Oh, about T/S's - I'll post the T/S's from one of our production samples over on our forum this weekend. I completely understand why people want them. I just wanted people to listen to it before releasing the T/S's, that's all.

 

[02parkave 5,000+ posts]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Previous Mags were crap, I was just riding the hype. Honda's 2005 Accords were total crap piles because their later models (2006, 2007, 2008, etc) just had improvements. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Intel just sold crap with the 486, and original Pentiums since they clearly sold better processors this year.

well.. seeing as how you COMPLETLY changed direction.. i dont know if this really is sarcasm you really are an *** nick

 

[negative3five 10+ year member]

Um just a quick question what is the name of the FEA software everyone is using? and Nick I seen on your forum you have another prototype comin when the new mags get here is that a BM proto or another line proto?

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Previous Mags were crap, I was just riding the hype. Honda's 2005 Accords were total crap piles because their later models (2006, 2007, 2008, etc) just had improvements. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Intel just sold crap with the 486, and original Pentiums since they clearly sold better processors this year.
Yes, that is sarcasm.

Have you ever heard of product improvement? Raising the bar? Do you believe the first, second, etc, offerings ANY company has is the pinnacle their design abilities will ever yield?

The original Mags were great. But rather than sit on our laurels - which you seem to espouse - we kept sweating, working, learning and came up with something even better.

Actually, Mr. Morgan is pretty wrong about his understanding of magnetics in general and XBL in specific. I'll take the word of my engineering team who not only helped with my driver, but works for companies like Microsoft, Dell, Harman, Event Electronics, Mackie, Ford, Tymphany, and many more. Companies that have thousands of top-flight engineers but still hire these guys because they are the experts in their field.

You create ZERO stray flux when you stack the top plates. You may increase the reluctance of the motor from potential air gaps, but that is nothing to do with stray flux. A basic understanding of electromagnetics will confirm this to be the case.

In fact, magnetic flux SEEKS OUT magnetically conductive material like steel (or magnet) to flow within, rather than air. Stray flux happens when there is either saturation and the flux must flow in other paths, or the

reluctance through the air is less than the reluctance through the steel.

Nick - from a flux standpoint - a stacked top plate and a stacked magnet set are identical. Does having all those double and triple stack magnets cause excess stray flux? If not, then what is the difference from having a triple stack magnet with a single piece top plate or a single stack magnet with a two piece top plate?

What about the air gap between the magnet and the back plate? Or the air gap between the magnet and the top plate? Do they "spray flux" as well? Those are all air gaps as you put. The key is to keep the volume of air between either - magnets or top plate parts - to a minimum. Minimize the air volume, you minimize the reluctance, and you do not affect the total flux flow. And stray flux isn't even in the

equation...

The proof is in the pudding - measurements of BL show that the models match reality to within a few percent, and are accurate for either stacked or non-stacked motor systems.

Now, talking about spraying windex, stray flux, and parabolic form, I would venture to say your models are wrong, you don't know what you're doing, or purposely gaming the models. The most you can claim is that at a free corner there is stray flux. However, that is not the case when you keep tolerances to minimum.

Flux does not "dance around randomly". It will flow from pole to pole by the path of least reluctance. Like current flows on the path of least resistance. There is nothing random about it - your claim otherwise shows

that you do not understand the way magnetics really work.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go pack so I can move into another house. If you'd like further clarification on anything I've posted I can do so at a later time.

Oh, about T/S's - I'll post the T/S's from one of our production samples over on our forum this weekend. I completely understand why people want them. I just wanted people to listen to it before releasing the T/S's, that's all.

Now what happens when you have as much as 1/16th of an inch gap between the plates because the guy at the build house flipped one backwards of the other not knowing the difference it can cause a big problem....

Pressed plates cause issue, if they are all assembled in the same fashion in which they are all pressed they will all dish the same and mesh, but you've still got the glue/air gap in between ever single one of them. Air gaps that leave voids for not only flux concentration issues, but bonding surfaces that never touch...causing motors to fall apart.

I've seen it on the newer tumults and brahma's...all too many times when the plates were flipped opposite of each other when they were pressed and assembled.

You can't tell me that a pressed piece of steel will not be dished. A cast piece, won't be dished because it is casted in a mold that are all the same.

I know how magnets work, i know how FEA works...apparently you missed that class in Wiggins school of woofers.

I know many people that work at Harman...who is the top flight engineer thats working on your woofer? I must have missed that one...should I call the director of brand marketing for the mobile systems divison and talk to them and see who's working on your sub for you?

How can you NOT have stray flux when you have air gaps? It's not a solid piece of steel, just because it is glued together does not mean that it is solid?

Edit: If i don't know what i'm doing with that FEA soft ware then how come the stray flux shoots towards the north, and south poles, every single time there is a gap?

There's nothing wrong with xbl^2, great topology and it works fine...it's the arrogance that goes along with it that makes many people chuckle, including myself. Have fun with your pissing match Mr. Lemons, I know i'm correct //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

 

[02parkave 5,000+ posts]

Now what happens when you have as much as 1/16th of an inch gap between the plates because the guy at the build house flipped one backwards of the other not knowing the difference it can cause a big problem....
Pressed plates cause issue, if they are all assembled in the same fashion in which they are all pressed they will all dish the same and mesh, but you've still got the glue/air gap in between ever single one of them. Air gaps that leave voids for not only flux concentration issues, but bonding surfaces that never touch...causing motors to fall apart.

I've seen it on the newer tumults and brahma's...all too many times when the plates were flipped opposite of each other when they were pressed and assembled.

You can't tell me that a pressed piece of steel will not be dished. A cast piece, won't be dished because it is casted in a mold that are all the same.

I know how magnets work, i know how FEA works...apparently you missed that class in Wiggins school of woofers.

I know many people that work at Harman...who is the top flight engineer thats working on your woofer? I must have missed that one...should I call the director of brand marketing for the mobile systems divison and talk to them and see who's working on your sub for you?

How can you NOT have stray flux when you have air gaps? It's not a solid piece of steel, just because it is glued together does not mean that it is solid?

Edit: If i don't know what i'm doing with that FEA soft ware then how come the stray flux shoots towards the north, and south poles, every single time there is a gap?

There's nothing wrong with xbl^2, great topology and it works fine...it's the arrogance that goes along with it that makes many people chuckle, including myself. Have fun with your pissing match Mr. Lemons, I know i'm correct //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

i dont care much about/for xbl^2, but this is funny. i love watching mr si make an *** out of himself

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

See, now he's insulted me personally and said that I do not know what i'm talking about. So, I shall take that personally. Below is a video of two xbl^2 gapped woofers. One the stacked plates of the Adire 8, which illustrates no concentration of flux around the air/glue gaps that are in between the stacked plates, the second of which is the RE XXX 15" woofer that is 1 piece of steel. Now according to Mr. Lemons I do not know FEA or how it works. So we dumbed it down even more and showed what Gauss, and Flux is. Flux concentration, and the lack of flux. Where the air and glue gaps lie on the motor.

Where there is little or not any flux steel will not stick. I threw steel shavings on both of the motors in the video and this is how they came out. Keep in mind both of which are xbl^2 woofers, only differing is stacked and not stacked top plates.

Lesson learned Nick, do not insult my knowledge.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v211/NDMstang65/?action=view&current=MOV01417.flv

 

[02parkave 5,000+ posts]

See, now he's insulted me personally and said that I do not know what i'm talking about. So, I shall take that personally. Below is a video of two xbl^2 gapped woofers. One the stacked plates of the Adire 8, which illustrates no concentration of flux around the air/glue gaps that are in between the stacked plates, the second of which is the RE XXX 15" woofer that is 1 piece of steel. Now according to Mr. Lemons I do not know FEA or how it works. So we dumbed it down even more and showed what Gauss, and Flux is. Flux concentration, and the lack of flux.
Where there is little or not any flux steel will not stick. I threw steel shavings on both of the motors in the video and this is how they came out. Keep in mind both of which are xbl^2 woofers, only differing is stacked and not stacked top plates.

Lesson learned Nick, do not insult my knowledge.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v211/NDMstang65/?action=view&current=MOV01417.flv

but,but.. you dont have to know xbl, if you pay someone else to know it:

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

but,but.. you dont have to know xbl, if you pay someone else to know it:

Only warning...You aren't involved in this. Your stupidity is making it hard to follow the other two party's discussion.

Don't post in here again.