Looking to make my 1990 Accord THUMP...and sound sweet...

[Red-nekrocker 10+ year member]

I'm a 18 year old guy just graduating High School. I bought a '90 Accord in REALLY nice shape. The problem is EVERYTHING on/in the car is stock...this will not do. I'm listening to music through my last two speakers...(the rear two "blew")

I love almost every kind of music. From AC/DC, Skillet, and Nickelback to Owl City, Michael Buble...you get the picture. I want a setup that can THUMP, but still sound smooth and sweet when I want it to.

I have a 12" Rockford Fosgate "Punch" sub and two small-ish amps.

I'm new to the stereo world, but I've been reading up on the internet and I see there are component speaker setups or coaxial/three/four way.

Here's what I'm considering: Because coaxials/three ways look easier to install (than component speakers) I'm considering them primarily. I'm looking at either JBL or Rockford Fosgate's 6x9 coaxial (HIGHEST END) speakers to mount with my 12" sub in the opening behind my rear seat, and 6.5" speakers in the front doors (The rear bench seat folds down giving access to the trunk.) I COULD just put in four 6.5" speakers in the stock positions (under the rear windshield and in the front doors), but from what I've read, it's preferred to have two 6.5", two 6x9's, and your sub(s)? I MAY be able to modify the stock speaker mounts to accommodate 6x9 speakers in the rear, but it pains me to think to marring up the stock-ness of my car.

As much as I'd like to open my trunk ONLY when I need access to my sub (So I can still have the good sound from the 6x9's for friends if I need to seat people in the back), I want amazing sound for myself and whoever's in the passenger seat more...

Any input for a newb is very much appreciated!

P.S. If I DO put the 12" sub and two 6x9's in that trunk opening they will fit fairly TIGHT...is that okay? Should I have some sort of shock-absorbing material between the sub and the speaker boxes?

P.P.S. I've also read particle board is good for building boxes because it is so rigid...is this true? How big/what shape should my boxes be? (I've read that there is a cubic foot volume that you should have for speakers...but not of any special shapes...) Or do I even need boxes if I'm putting the speakers in the trunk?

P.P.P.S. So I'm considering three options:

1. Put my 6x9's and sub in the trunk opening and have 6.5's in my front doors.

2. Put 6.5's all around in the stock positions and put only the sub in the trunk opening.

3. Put the 6.5's in the front doors, 6X9's in the rear opening (this is where I'll have to marr up my car...maybe I could go to a junkyard and find the speaker mounts for the rear and keep my mounts nice), and put my sub in the trunk opening.

Pros and cons? Is any of my thinking askew?

Thank you in advance all for your help!!! This is a learning experience for me, so I'll eat up any advice you can throw at me.

-Zach

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[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

welcome. thanks for asking questions. you're plans are not good ideas, we can help you invest wisely so you hear good music and don't damage your new gear.

front speakers - spend most of your time and effort here. it's where the music should come from. they are close to you and determine how good you will sound. i consider components a requirement up front. never liked front coaxial speakers that are located off-axis in teh door. on-axis in the kicks can work well for some coaxial. tweeters should be aimed at or near your head, not at your feet. make sense? spend the time to do components, locating tweeters is easy. spend time deadening and sealing the front doors, building good baffles, sealing with foams, do it right and it will sound great.

for the rear, you cannot put subs and 6x9's in the same box. you will blow the 6x9 since the sub will pressurize them - treating them like a passive radiator against their will.

i vote option 2: you seal off a single 12" at the rear seat opening, enclosed but with a board that creates an airtight seal between cabin and trunk. you can see this effort in my build log:

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1369669&page=1# Post1369669

then you can do 6.5's in the rear deck - preferably the same speakers you did up front, minus the tweeters.

no one makes boxes out of particleboard anymore. it ***** for boxes because it can't hold screws and flakes apart. we use 3/4" MDF or 7-ply Birch or plywood. we use wood glue and clamps, screws optional. we brace any surface that has more than 8" in any direction. we seal seams with resin and fiberglass when we are serious about high output.

we waterproof any wood that can get wet - waterproof can be done with some paints but resin is always best. resin is easy to work with, just spend some time reading up on fiberglassforums and other places.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

You have much to learn young one hahaha

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

But so far your doing ok... I wouldnt suggest RF stuff but if its what you have go for it..

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

depends on what RF stuff, the old school gear was decent. i had some RF amps that i really liked. speakers were so-so, but always liked their amps.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

depends on what RF stuff, the old school gear was decent. i had some RF amps that i really liked. speakers were so-so, but always liked their amps.

This is true...

 

[Red-nekrocker 10+ year member]

Many thanks keep_hope_alive! Okay. So I'll be looking to buy four 6.5" speakers with tweaters? Or should I still consider 6x9's? (I'm guessing that if I do 6x9's I'd want them in the front? It's going to be a real job getting into my door, so I want to be 100% sure what I'm doing before I start...the stock speakers up front are 6.5's so if I install 6x9's I'll have to mess with the mounting, which I want to keep at a minimum).

I don't want to be TOO selfish about my speaker placement...(but I'm all over learning the pros and cons of whatever I do). Should I get 4 tweaters? One directed towards the head of each passenger? Or get only two and keep my high range focus up towards the front seats? I haven't seen component speakers for sale that don't come with both components (speaker and tweater).

Now when you say: "spend time deadening and sealing the front doors, building good baffles, sealing with foams, do it right and it will sound great."

I get a tad intimidated, but I'm up for doing what I have to. Where can I go for info on this particular part of the process? I have lots of questions... Do I need to seal/deaden the whole door? Or just around the speaker? What are baffles? Do I have to do anything permanent to the door?

One more question about tweaters... could I mount them by my feet pointing towards my head? I'd like to have any gear I install as out of sight/concealed as possible (I spend the school year in a college town...I'll be starting on my EE degree next year...so soon I'll know more about wiring, but as of now I'm fairly clueless).

Summary: SHOULD I have 6x9's? If so, where? (can I do 6.5's and be golden?)

Sealing speakers...where can I get a start on learning how to do this properly in a car door? Should I do this for the rear-mounted speakers?

Tweaters...how many? Can I place them out of sight?

You've saved me lots of money and lots of time already. Thanks!

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

Many thanks keep_hope_alive! Okay. So I'll be looking to buy four 6.5" speakers with tweaters? Or should I still consider 6x9's? (I'm guessing that if I do 6x9's I'd want them in the front? It's going to be a real job getting into my door, so I want to be 100% sure what I'm doing before I start...the stock speakers up front are 6.5's so if I install 6x9's I'll have to mess with the mounting, which I want to keep at a minimum).
I don't want to be TOO selfish about my speaker placement...(but I'm all over learning the pros and cons of whatever I do). Should I get 4 tweaters? One directed towards the head of each passenger? Or get only two and keep my high range focus up towards the front seats? I haven't seen component speakers for sale that don't come with both components (speaker and tweater).

Now when you say: "spend time deadening and sealing the front doors, building good baffles, sealing with foams, do it right and it will sound great."

I get a tad intimidated, but I'm up for doing what I have to. Where can I go for info on this particular part of the process? I have lots of questions... Do I need to seal/deaden the whole door? Or just around the speaker? What are baffles? Do I have to do anything permanent to the door?

One more question about tweaters... could I mount them by my feet pointing towards my head? I'd like to have any gear I install as out of sight/concealed as possible (I spend the school year in a college town...I'll be starting on my EE degree next year...so soon I'll know more about wiring, but as of now I'm fairly clueless).

Summary: SHOULD I have 6x9's? If so, where?

Sealing speakers...where can I get a start on learning how to do this properly in a car door? Should I do this for the rear-mounted speakers?

Tweaters...how many? Can I place them out of sight?

You've saved me lots of money and lots of time already. Thanks!

No get all 6.5's components in the front and coaxials in the back is what Id do... and tweeter placement is gunna depend on a lot...

 

[Red-nekrocker 10+ year member]

No get all 6.5's components in the front and coaxials in the back is what Id do... and tweeter placement is gunna depend on a lot...

Thanks Bettr n' Revrse!

This makes me happy. My friend set up his truck and was dead set on 6.5 and 6x9 three ways. (He has no sub yet) So anyway, I thought that 6x9's were crucial. Good to learn I was wrong! XD

Oh, another question. My Sub is one I got of Craigslist awhile back...it's a 12" 1999 RF Punch. It's not BAD that it's old is it? I could replace it in the future I guess...if I just build a box for a 12" sub...a single 12" will be plenty for a full sized sedan right? I don't need TOTAL overkill.

Here's what I'm understanding I should do:

1. mount 6.5 speakers in all the stock positions (just speakers up front and Coaxials in rear), sealing, foam, (baffles?) (and stuff I still need to learn how to do) to each speaker position.

2. Place my tweaters up front (I'll post pics some time in the future as to where I'm thinking and get professional opinions).

3. Build a box for my sub in the rear that completely seals off the opening between the cab and the trunk out of good quality plywood. (I'm still wondering about the box's shape?)

Still another question!

WHAT TYPE of speakers should I get? Am I good on the RF option?

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=3&series_id=34&family_id=297&item_id=112907&locale=en_US&p_status=

This is a bit pricy for me..but I can do this project over time...

Can I get suggestions on 6.5 speakers? Coaxial and Component?

Thanks!

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

Ah, this makes me happy. My friend set up his truck and was dead set on 6.5 and 6x9 three ways. (He has no sub yet) So anyway, I thought that 6x9's were crucial. Good to learn I was wrong! XD
Oh, another question. My Sub is one I got of Craigslist awhile back...it's a 12" 1999 RF Punch. It's not BAD that it's old is it? I could replace it in the future I guess...if I just build a box for a 12" sub...a single 12" will be plenty for a full sized sedan right? I don't need TOTAL overkill.

Here's what I'm understanding I should do:

1. mount 6.5 speakers in all the stock positions (just speakers up front and Coaxials in rear), sealing, foam, (baffles?) (and stuff I still need to learn how to do) to each speaker position.

2. Place my tweaters up front (I'll post pics some time in the future as to where I'm thinking and get professional opinions).

3. Build a box for my sub in the rear that completely seals off the opening between the cab and the trunk out of good quality plywood. (I'm still wondering about the box's shape?)

Ehhh it will be ok if its still in good shape, any pics? by speakers you mean what for the front doors? and as far as the box no dont seal off the truck just get a good ported box built for your sub...

 

[Red-nekrocker 10+ year member]

Yeah, I'm very open to suggestions for 6.5 speakers all around (I updated my above post). My sub is at my bro's place, but I'll get some pics by the weekend and post them.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

Just go with components up front the put the mid in the door and the tweets on the dash... I have some comps with out the mid if your interested you can buy some mids...

 

[Fiendstolemyamp 10+ year member]

Please never say you like Nickelback again.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

for explanations on how to properly treat your doors and install a sound system, refer to build logs.

here are some builds i've done - review these to get you started

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1755977/page/3#Post1755977

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1625041/page/3#Post1625041

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1367890/page/3#Post1367890

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1805987/page/3#Post1805987

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1369669/page/3#Post1369669

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1400581/page/3#Post1400581

as an EE, I wish you good luck and hope you stick with it. it's a rewarding degree.

you'll get most of the required knowledge for car audio in Circuits I. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i don't even put coax in rears. i recommend no rear tweeters. that's what i have come to appreciate. after almost two decades of car audio experience, i'm done putting tweeters behind me. no more. not necessary nor desirable when you have proper placement up front. a standard mid/woofer will easily play to 10k anyway, though i like to limit my rear fill to 400-4kHz with gentle slopes. the point of rear speakers is to give you some simulated reflections - like you get in a room. without time alignment (T/A) what you can do with rear fill is limited and it usually takes away from the sound stage. with T/A, rear fill will help you locate and define your sound stage.

my recommendation is that whatever component speakers you buy for the front, you also buy for the rear. except you won't install the rear tweeters. save them as spares in case you mis-wire and damage one of the fronts. it's a common occurrence.

i've also learned that in order to really enjoy a speaker, you need good amplification. no head unit power will ever let you hear what a speaker can do. amplifiers add cost and complexity, but are totally worth the effort. again, start pouring through build logs to see what is done. i take detailed pics to help others. for a guideline/instructions - refer to IASCA, MECA, and USACi SQ install rules. they are free downloads and will give you step-by-step information on how to properly install a sound system. regardless if you ever compete, the rules should be followed if you want to ensure a solid install. EE's are focused on the installation and layout since that will determine the performance of the circuit.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

as far as sealing the sub with the opening - it will always outperform a ported enclosure in the trunk facing back... when accuracy is your goal. i know this from experience building and testing. my testing is both subjective (ears) and objective (RTA). the reason is phase interference is minimized with a baffle. if you want to know what to do, this is it. you are welcome to experiment. few go to great lengths for accuracy. most are only interested in loud noise. the later is very easy to achieve.

examples of some testing in my own Accord:

This

Was MUCH better than this

And just facing the ported enclosure forward without a baffle wasn't as good due to phase interference

this was boomy and lacked overall accuracy, typical for all rear facing enclosures without baffles.

this was an enclosure i experimented with a lot - different orientation and angles, but with a baffle it was the best

you can see one orientation through the opening, this one was the best as far as trunk locations went

this is my current setup and hands down the best one