Line array has been started.

[brandontw 10+ year member]

I still have this itch to build a pair...

Its fun times and good learning experience if nothing else.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Both done and in there places.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

You need a projector and a big screen. That tv looks scrawny now. lol What size is it?

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

You need a projector and a big screen. That tv looks scrawny now. lol What size is it?

42" Plasma Ambilight.

A large screen and projector would definitely round out the look. I will probably movethe DVD cabinets into another room as well. Problem with a projector it the ceiling fan that the wife insists on having //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif A 60" Plasma may work good though.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

That's 42"? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif Those arrays are massive! lol

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

That's 42"? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif Those arrays are massive! lol

A smidge over 8' tall.

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

Those look awesome dude...

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Well they do everything they are supposed to. Within their focused area they are loud. Not the best SQ, but give a real live feeling. Like being at a concert. I loled.

Don't be dissuaded, SQ can be improved.

Some random thoughts;

1. Line array power handling is much higher than a normal speaker.

2. Your reciever is a power bottleck -> My towers maxed a 112c

3. Crossover is a simple 12db both ways at 4.5khz. - this can affect

perception of SQ.

'Calipso's array;

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/speaker/94.jpg

Same tweeters are yours, IIRC. He uses Sammi midranges each in a PVC tube

to extend the bass. He loves this. He uses analog electronic crossovers and

some amps, I forgot which ones. He swears by the sound.

When I do crossover frequency sweeps with my budget array, but I have PT2

tweeters not domes, same mids as you, I notice the SQ opens up with a lower

crossover point as the tweeters are doing more work. I run my crossover at

1.7khz, 48dB/octave. The $4 dome tweeters are limited and you may be able

to only go down to 2.5khz, but maybe that is enough to get SQ to improve?

I would use a steeper slope, at least 4th order.

When I tested my array with a chipamp DIY amplifier, the array sounded fine,

good enough for the average person to be happy with, but replacing the

low powered amp with a high powered, high headroom, pro amp opened up

a new door to SQ. When I upgraded the amps again and bridged them, it's

mania. The perception of squashed dynamics is gone, the crack of the snare

drum feels real as if the guy is in your room beating on the drum in front of

you.

Digital crossover: I use the delay feature an add 15mS delay to one speaker

channel, to simulate depth as in a 'concert hall effect'. This adds to the SQ.

Some sources may have this ability too.

Do you high pass the NSB's ? Those are nice drivers if you keep them in

a good bandpass. I use a high pass and the settting is determined by

ear and feel based on power and listening mood. For example, the WinISD

model I did was to have a 100hz tune. In theory, a high pass of 100hz is

ideal. But in reality, I could go lower. I was cranking tunes, looking at the NSB

cone movement and sweeping the high pass. I used 48dB/octave setting

so I was able to set the high pass to 65hz as the best fit. This high pass

keeps the bass out and the power handling high.

Stay focused on arrays, they rule.

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

What is the center to center spacing on the tweeters? Do you notice any problems in the high frequencies?

Brian

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Dome tweeters aren't ideal for line arrays but if you can get CTC to 1.5" or less, it can

work well, people have done it. But, if you did find a dome tweeter that can do 1.5"

CTC, most likely it's small and it's performance is limited, ie Fs is high, which limits the

ability to get great sound at a lower crossover point.

re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms

for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,

20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than

500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Don't be dissuaded, SQ can be improved.
Some random thoughts;

1. Line array power handling is much higher than a normal speaker.

2. Your reciever is a power bottleck -> My towers maxed a 112c

3. Crossover is a simple 12db both ways at 4.5khz. - this can affect

perception of SQ.

'Calipso's array;

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/speaker/94.jpg

Same tweeters are yours, IIRC. He uses Sammi midranges each in a PVC tube

to extend the bass. He loves this. He uses analog electronic crossovers and

some amps, I forgot which ones. He swears by the sound.

When I do crossover frequency sweeps with my budget array, but I have PT2

tweeters not domes, same mids as you, I notice the SQ opens up with a lower

crossover point as the tweeters are doing more work. I run my crossover at

1.7khz, 48dB/octave. The $4 dome tweeters are limited and you may be able

to only go down to 2.5khz, but maybe that is enough to get SQ to improve?

I would use a steeper slope, at least 4th order.

When I tested my array with a chipamp DIY amplifier, the array sounded fine,

good enough for the average person to be happy with, but replacing the

low powered amp with a high powered, high headroom, pro amp opened up

a new door to SQ. When I upgraded the amps again and bridged them, it's

mania. The perception of squashed dynamics is gone, the crack of the snare

drum feels real as if the guy is in your room beating on the drum in front of

you.

Digital crossover: I use the delay feature an add 15mS delay to one speaker

channel, to simulate depth as in a 'concert hall effect'. This adds to the SQ.

Some sources may have this ability too.

Do you high pass the NSB's ? Those are nice drivers if you keep them in

a good bandpass. I use a high pass and the settting is determined by

ear and feel based on power and listening mood. For example, the WinISD

model I did was to have a 100hz tune. In theory, a high pass of 100hz is

ideal. But in reality, I could go lower. I was cranking tunes, looking at the NSB

cone movement and sweeping the high pass. I used 48dB/octave setting

so I was able to set the high pass to 65hz as the best fit. This high pass

keeps the bass out and the power handling high.

Stay focused on arrays, they rule.

The mids are high passed at 60hz 12db slope. With the power I have this is good. I can see I will need a steeper slope if getting a real amp. I am not done and knew from the beginning that the XO would be a weak point for me on SQ. I just wanted to get something basic up and running that I could play with and adjust down the road. I am not done with these at all. I do want to try a single driver full range rear load horn setup though to see how the other half lives. How much power with steep XOs are you pushing through your arrays?

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

Dome tweeters aren't ideal for line arrays but if you can get CTC to 1.5" or less, it canwork well, people have done it. But, if you did find a dome tweeter that can do 1.5"

CTC, most likely it's small and it's performance is limited, ie Fs is high, which limits the

ability to get great sound at a lower crossover point.

re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms

for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,

20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than

500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.

Exactly. These are 3/4" domes and are good for spacing on arrays, but I don't know how low I can safely take them. Their fs is 1800, so in theory a steeper slope at 3600 shouldn't be out of the question. I just don't know about 2.5k. That seems a bit low for this.
I had contemplated adding more of the same tweeters when I noticed the effects I was getting without a tilt. In the end I decided that if I am going to extend the tweeter line it will be to add ribbons instead. So that will be down the road.

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms

for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,

20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than

500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.

Man I have way more than enough bass without a second amp. . .

The specs I see are:

4 ohms (20 Hz-20 kHz 0.05% THD) - 1100 W

I am running at 2 ohms, so not sure what I am getting. I have them EQ'd pretty flat to 20 Hz, and they are not going to take much more mechanically.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Probably moved down to Florida and that's his front stage now.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif i thought the same thing.

these line arrays look wild. But i rather have a horn setup cause i hate running gobbles of power.

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

The mids are high passed at 60hz 12db slope.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

How much power with steep XOs are you pushing through your arrays?

Universal DVD Player -> Roland Mixer -> DCX2496 [8th order slope] -> four QSC PLX3402 bridged.

Tweeter impedance = 0.8 ohms [option for 3.2 ohms]

Midrange impedance = 2 ohms [option for 8 ohms]

Before this;

It was Adcom 555II stereo mode on tweeters, QSC RMX2450 stereo mode

on the midranges. Works nice, but the PLX setup is a performance booster.

I also tested a 4ch DIY bridged chip amplifier [LM4780], ~120w x 4 and

it works, there is sound, but it can't even come close to the above.