Line Array Build Progress - **PICS**

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

To clarify:

The budget arrays are impressive for the cost and they can really beat

down store bought product costing 10x more if you build them properly.

The PLX and Crest amps are going to be used for a future build, the big

system in the works for the past 5 years. I just so happen to be using

four PLX on the budget array because it's too cool. I put the Adcom 555

back on the test bench and the RMX2450 is lonely again.

So which line array project are you referring too ? There is a logical explanation

for all these ideas.

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

Which B&W's did they sound better than? And on what points did they sound better....

WARNING this is long, and no one may be interested exept for B&W_EE

I think the were 601's im not sure if the have anything before or after the 601, but I know they cost about 700$/pair a few years ago at a local A/V store. They have 6-7 inch yellow kevlar midbass driver and a titanium tweeter i think.

As far as comparing them to the line arrays, I thought the line arrays would mabye be more loud and harsh, with an emphasis on power instead of quality. But I was mistaken. Even at low levels, the line arrays filled the room with rich, smooth sound, and the vocals and highs were still clear. I went with the textile tweeter, because I feel like aluminum/titanium tweeters tend to be harsh (this is probably in my head) and this tweeter did me good. At low levels, it kept up with the mids, and at high levels it didnt get harsh and painful.

And as far as the mids, its hard to imagine a 4 inch speeker putting out any kind of kick or bass, but when you have 32 working together, its very impressive indeed. We turned off the sub for a few songs, and the line arrays still shook the house with midbass and moderate bass. This really suprised me. There is a particular song, from the garden state soundtrack, called winding road, and it has good vocals, but on most speakers, it has a certain tone that becomes too prominent and overpowers the vocals, and on the b&w's it sounded good, but it sounded REALLY good on the line arrays.

But where they really shine is at high levels, I am not sure I have ever heard music that loud with absolutly no distortion. Even with PA speakers, you hear wierd stuff at high levels, but these were just clean. The B&W's level out and the woofers start overextending and the tweeter starts complaining at high levels, and we have acually blown the b&w's listening to music not near as loud as the line arrays went.

I may have had a biased opinion because I had the costs in mind, my ears just could not tell 500$ worth of difference in the speakers. If i had to choose, I would definately choose the line arrays. It was like the difference between good component speaks like infinity kappa's, and REALLY good component speaks, like high end MB quarts. Just overall more pleasent, and of couse impressive to listen too than the B&W's. I guess my dad agrees, becasue he is ready to put the B&W's in the closet and use line arrays. And its not like he just bought the b&w's on a whim, he spent months shopping, and even when to the next biggest city to shop so he could hear more options he settled on the B&W's becasue they weere the best for his price range.

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

Small arrays are neat but you may miss the horsepower of the big array.Floor to ceiling type of arrays really shine, but cost more. It's only money,

go big. Build once not twice, he may want a bigger one later...

As for the mini array that is under discussion, even is i used half as many woofers, with 8x the power handling, I would still lack hosepower?

I trying to find a way to make him some good speaks, but i dont think he wanted them 7 feet tall.

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

I just love this new hobbie you got me into thylantyr, but i see alot of pissed neighbors and an empty wallet in my future.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

I have some DM601 S3's and yes they do get harsh at high volume, a long way above comfortable listening volume, and blowing them up is insane!!! I can hear the difference so that’s why I like B&W. But if you can’t and just like volume knock yourself out...

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

I think ******* are in order.

NG

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

I like *******!!!

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

I think ******* are in order.
NG

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif what?

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif what?

Do you not know what ******* are????

 

[brandontw 10+ year member]

Do you not know what ******* are????

but why are ******* in order for a line array?

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

I heard the B&W 800D with McIntosh setup, the speakers in the store had a

$16k sticker on them. To them, it was their best system to showcase. It's

no match for a good DIY project though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

There are two ways to get high sensitivity out of the array.

More drivers [some exception] and lower impedance wiring.

Most people don't wire the array for the lowest possible impedance

because their amps aren't able to cope with it. But there is a hidden

secret, amp can do more than rated when only doing tweeters and mids

and in an active setup, it's easier to control.

You should see the prosound folks go into a grand mall seizure when I tell them

my PLX is running 0.8 ohms in bridged mode.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Maybe you are a super genius with audio or something, but I don’t see how putting some stuff together and getting lucky can compare with millions of dollars in researching and engineering. For Christ sake they custom build their drivers and cabinets to work together. I agree with the fact that they don’t get that loud, but Jesus that diamond tweeter sounds like heaven. Even their alloy tweeters sound awesome, actually I’m going to go pick up my new 703’s next week. This is just turning into a Ford, Dodge, Chevy battle where everyone likes their own thing and won’t admit something else is better. All loudspeakers have limitations; the whole idea is building a system for what you want. But, if you go too much in on one area the system will lack in another. Line arrays are good for volume and covering a large area well because of the coupling, but they lack in character, depth, imaging etc because of that same coupling. Strict form Piston speakers (Non array) don’t have as much coupling so they don’t have the coverage or volume capabilities, but they are better at balance, tone depth, and imaging. So, it’s a trade off. I’m not saying your stuff doesn’t sound good, I’m just saying my stuff sounds just as good but we are measuring that from different points of perspective.

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

Maybe you are a super genius with audio or something, but I don’t see how putting some stuff together and getting lucky can compare with millions of dollars in researching and engineering. ..........

This isn't really a fight/arguement anyone can win.

With that said I agree, there is no doubt (in my mind) that the DIY'er will have some placebo effect with something they build on their own. (I hope to get my monitors finished in a few months //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif )

Conversly, I believe that an amazing quality can be obtained at a much lower price when things are done DIY.

There is also the matter that most DIY'ers DIY because they can't afford to have Wilson Alexandria's in their living/listening room. It is a rare breed of store that has their hi-fi set up properly in a room acoustically tuned specifically for the current setup it contains. So it is highly likely that a $50 DIY 1-way in your home sounds better than a $2,000 bookshelf in a store.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Agreed, I'm done arguing....