I've had enough! I'm going active!

[emilimo701 10+ year member]

So I'm str8 thuggin in a '92 subaru //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

I replaced the stock speakers with some Alpine Type-R's.

My amp is giving them (up to) 180 watts RMS each. The R's are rated at 100w. I basically have them being pushed to their limits. And I'm not satisfied. Believe it or not, I'd like my music to be even louder! I was thinking of buying a get of JBL c608's so i can squeeze in an extra 50+ watts, but how much of a difference will 50% increase in power make? I realize that the laws of physics limit just how much power a 6-inch component set can handle, so i'm thinking that it might be time to delve into the art of fiberglassing and run multiple components in my frontstage.

So while a plan on doing this, why not just do the "audiophile" thing and build a completely active system, separating the amplification of each component?!?

I'm new to this hobby, so i'll probably have tons of questions that you on this forum will hopefully be willing to answer. Instead of creating new threads for each new question, I'll just keep everything here in one thread. Once I get started with the build, i'll switch over to the build log thread. But right now i'm in the planning stage. Had a long day at work so i'm hitting the hay. But i'll start off simple.........

What do you guys think... I want LOUDER, so is multiple speakers a good idea? or too over the top for a first project in a vehicle that might not last the summer?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

Click to read more...

 

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

so you really don't know what you're doing and you're gonna spend a lot of money on a sound products in a car that is junk? sounds like you need to learn some money management first than do some reading on car audio setups.

 

[Mattd0344 10+ year member]

I think you got going active confused... read here

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/speakers/146726-active-vs-passive-attempt-me-explain.html

Might just want to get a super tweeter if your stuff isn't loud enough.

Crescendo Audio :: Tweeters :: XST2 Supertweeter

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Passive crossovers suit me just fine.

 

[DarkScorpion 10+ year member]

Stick with passive crossovers.

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

Passive crossovers suit me just fine.

Stick with passive crossovers.

X2. Active = no more rooms for **** cuz teh amps be taking up all meh room

Active in a van or something would be alright.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

X2. Active = no more rooms for **** cuz teh amps be taking up all meh room

Or if you're running about 3 Hifonics Falcons in your front stage.

Did I mention my new minty fresh Falcon in this thread yet? I got a minty fresh Falcon, y'all. WOOT! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

I would do all that, but dats alot **** to have in your daily driver. Maybe when I get a SPLMONSTA I will go active in the front stage. Get me sum them ol skool active 4way crossover thingies and a whol lottavagina, and awholelottaamps.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Let's start a pool. How long til the OP "goes active". I got my money on NEVAR! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

I bet money that he/she fry's sumthin first.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Going active doesn't really take up much more space. You get slighty bigger amp and dont' have to worry about mounting a crossover, IMO it's a better trade off if anything. A 50% increase in power will not be audible. By the time you factor in power compression your looking at less than a 1db gain. If you want louder you need more speakers, or more effecient ones. IMO more effecient is the way to go, I'll compare to my car as I use higher effeciency drivesr.

The Type R's are 87db's 1w/1m at 4ohms. The usual standard is an 8ohm driver in the rest of the world, so to compare it to what I'm using for example, we need to drop it by 3db's since 1watt of voltage at 4ohms is actaully .5watt at 8. So now your looking at a 84db/1w/1m to get an apples to apples comparison. My drivers are 97db/1w/1m. That's 13db's louder with the same input voltage. That's means you need 16x the power I do to get the same SPL as me (2x2x2x2=16 and each doubling of power is 3db's, it's actually more like 17x, due to the difference being 13 and not 12, but close enough)

Right now my mids are on a 150 watt amp, and suffer from little to no power compression as they are AES rated at 200 watts. They are very conserative in pro audio as the speaker must handle pink noise at 200 watts with very quick bursts of 1600 thrown in for good measure (like .1 of a second worth) for 2 hours. 150x16=2400watts RMS. SO assuming your speakers could handle infinte power and just get louder and louder you'd need about 2500 watts on each speaker to keep up with my mids on 150. To match a 13db gain you could also double the number of mids in your car and keep power to each set constant. You'd need 4 sets of mids and 4 amps as well. You also run out of mounting locations and get very bad imaging and overall sound due to cancellation from each set of mids. If you want loud that doens't sound bad then get out of car audio speakers, they are all overpriced junk anyway. My car can jam at near rock concert volume levels and the only thing holding me back is my amp. It also images on top the dash with cues outside the car on most good tracks, depth to mid hood and the mids images make it to the mirrors, horns stop at pillars edge which is my car's biggest weakeness right now.. Try doing that with 3 sets of cheap speakers.

 

[emilimo701 10+ year member]

I think you got going active confused

nope. amping each component separately is what i meant

I bet money that he/she fry's sumthin first.

truth be told, i'm not the threshold of destroying my current speakers. and today, my amps kept cutting out! :-/

Going active doesn't really take up much more space. You get slighty bigger amp and dont' have to worry about mounting a crossover, IMO it's a better trade off if anything. A 50% increase in power will not be audible. By the time you factor in power compression your looking at less than a 1db gain. If you want louder you need more speakers, or more effecient ones. IMO more effecient is the way to go, I'll compare to my car as I use higher effeciency drivesr.
The Type R's are 87db's 1w/1m at 4ohms. The usual standard is an 8ohm driver in the rest of the world, so to compare it to what I'm using for example, we need to drop it by 3db's since 1watt of voltage at 4ohms is actaully .5watt at 8. So now your looking at a 84db/1w/1m to get an apples to apples comparison. My drivers are 97db/1w/1m. That's 13db's louder with the same input voltage. That's means you need 16x the power I do to get the same SPL as me (2x2x2x2=16 and each doubling of power is 3db's, it's actually more like 17x, due to the difference being 13 and not 12, but close enough)

Right now my mids are on a 150 watt amp, and suffer from little to no power compression as they are AES rated at 200 watts. They are very conserative in pro audio as the speaker must handle pink noise at 200 watts with very quick bursts of 1600 thrown in for good measure (like .1 of a second worth) for 2 hours. 150x16=2400watts RMS. SO assuming your speakers could handle infinte power and just get louder and louder you'd need about 2500 watts on each speaker to keep up with my mids on 150. To match a 13db gain you could also double the number of mids in your car and keep power to each set constant. You'd need 4 sets of mids and 4 amps as well. You also run out of mounting locations and get very bad imaging and overall sound due to cancellation from each set of mids. If you want loud that doens't sound bad then get out of car audio speakers, they are all overpriced junk anyway. My car can jam at near rock concert volume levels and the only thing holding me back is my amp. It also images on top the dash with cues outside the car on most good tracks, depth to mid hood and the mids images make it to the mirrors, horns stop at pillars edge which is my car's biggest weakeness right now.. Try doing that with 3 sets of cheap speakers.

just how accurate are these ratings in regards to their efficiency over the full frequency spectrum? I tested alpine type s (89 db) and type r (87 db) side by side, and one after the other, and the type r seemed just as loud, if not louder.

I think I'm going to buy a set of those JBLs, since i've seen no other components in my price range (

I bet money that he/she fries sumthin first.

i iz a dude.

 

[emilimo701 10+ year member]

X2. Active = no more rooms for **** cuz teh amps be taking up all meh room
Active in a van or something would be alright.

the Subie is a wagon; i have plenty of space to spare. and if i get a new car, 90% it will be an SUV

 

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

the Subie is a wagon; i have plenty of space to spare. and if i get a new car, 90% it will be an SUV

still doesn't change the fact that you don't know what you're doing and that you wont have enough processing to make it even worth it.

 

[emilimo701 10+ year member]

so you really don't know what you're doing and you're gonna spend a lot of money on a sound products in a car that is junk? sounds like you need to learn some money management first than do some reading on car audio setups.

i wouldn't plan on buying top-top end products, and i think it would be good to gain some experience on a car that i don't care about if i fuck up the cosmetics.

so you really don't know what you're doing and you're gonna spend a lot of money on a sound products in a car that is junk? sounds like you need to learn some money management first than do some reading on car audio setups.

that's why i'm here. to learn, and gain some constructive criticism //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif