Ok im throwing something out here screw buying a new car point blank period! as far as salesmen at dealerships i personally thinkdamn near everyone i have ever ran into was shady as hell and i understand they have to make a living like anyone, but that being said 99.9% of them do not really help the customer do anything at all they talk the cars up and try to get commission i do not need anyones help and they will cheat and manipulate the system anyway that they can.. i have a perfect example.... i have a good friend went to buy a vehicle he told me he had one vehicle that he bought at 18 years old with a co signer that he paid off, but never showed up on his report. and the only other thing he had was a repo'd 2001 nissan maxima.. that is all that he has ever financed his entire life and he is 34 year old. so they do a credit check at a local finance company for a used cheverolet dually very nice truck with the works his uncle was cutting him a deal on like 8k when it was worth around 15-17 according to the books. his credit score came back as an 802??? realise 850 is perfect, so they tell him there that his intrest would be so high he would be over paying to try the bank should be no problem with that credit score. so off to the bank. now he is in the bank and goes through all the bs and the loan officer asks him do you have a checking account with us? nope he sure doesn't. do you have a checking account anywhere? nope i sure don't he says. so he begins to ask him about the things that had been financed nothing that they ask him about had he ever financed and the banker knows him it is a small town and it said he owned property out of state and all sorts of stuff. needless to say he said let me check into this and i will get back to you... anyway he would not give him a loan, so he goes to the dealership same thing hapens then they keep asking are you sure this is your social security number because they realise something is sketchy as well he shows them his ss card and 3 forms of id. salesman comes back says look this is between us and no one else someone has used your ssn to buy all these things and paid it all off and gotten your scor **** near perfect you have hit the lottery pick whatever you want on the lot.. he did and they tried getting 5 banks to take the loan and finally one did. 2 weeks later they back out and had not paid they caught it also and they end up going through another bank that finally accepts it and the salesman said i know these peple will take it they just skim through things they aren't to thorough. and they did so now he is driving a brand new truck which is good for him but the pint is look how crooked they are and how badly they all wanted to make a dollar. and they sale a ton of vehicles also hmmm wonder why lol anyway i cant tell you to many people that care for any car dealerships i have run into a few good ones but they are very rare... no offense to any cr salesmen on here but i just hope you all aren't like the ones i have dealt with and seen others have to deal with and sorry for the rambling post but i thought it was a good story hahaha