Imagration Reform

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

A large portion of the country speaks both english and spanish, and not even just the hispanics. It's because Spanish is a very popular language. You keep forgetting to address the point that other countries offer options for Americans who speak English. Because English is also a popular language. Should they stop letting Americans go to other countries now? Are Americans refusing to conform to other countries societies now?

What portion of non-hispanic American's speak Spanish? What does a 'large portion' mean, and where did you get such specific data?

Are Americans refusing to conform to other countries societies now?

I love how you liberals keep forgetting we are talking about illegal squatters here. Where's your link to the number of American's who illegally immigrated to other countries to live anonymously, and did NOT learn the native language of their new country? Because we are talking about illegal immigrants, not legal ones, not tourists, not business men on a business trip.
But if you insist on comparing us to European countries who include English on their street signs etc... I can guarantee not a single one of those countries is doing it to conform to a wave of anonymous and illegal immigrants. Is it impossible for you to remember the details of the topic at hand? It seems to be. Hey I know, lets compare these Mexican illegal immigrants to Moses parting the Red Sea and letting the Jews 'immigrate' across it. That's like totally the same situation too!

And all those countries you are talking about with english secondarily on signs... they have more strict immigration laws than this country does. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

 

[oldschoolboomer 10+ year member]

A lot of the people who like idea of the law are white people who have never had to worry about being profiled, or discriminated against so they don't understand how offensive and annoying it is. I know I would be offended if I was a U.S. citizen and a police officer questions whether or not I'm here legally. There's better ways to go about this than profiling people.

So you would rather the illegals continued raping and pillaging the country than face the minute possibility that someone may ask to see your i.d.?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

So you would rather the illegals continued raping and pillaging the country than face the minute possibility that someone may ask to see your i.d.?

The liberal mentality of the past couple decades has really sensitized people to anything that is perceived as racially motivated. Believe me Im for 'all men are created equal'and we need to eliminate racism, but just a couple pages back in this thread a guy stated he was driving 10mph over the speed limit in the middle of the night, and felt very strongly that he was pulled over by the cops because he was black.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

The fact you've never met someone who doesn't want to learn English only tells me how limited your first hand experience with illegals is. Most of the illegals I knew in Cali who didnt speak english (well) were planning on returning to Mexico once they had saved enough money. One old man I met (friend's grandfather) decided he was too old to learn. Several others in the fringe of the people I knew seemed to simply despise most everything 'gringo'.
You've obviously never been to a barrio/neighborhood where its quite easy to get along every day without knowing one word of English. Ive been to some of those places. Again, your opinion exceeds your experience.

Your attempt to boil this down to I cant prove every spanish speaking illegal doesnt want to learn english is silly. Only in your fantasy world do those people not exist unless I post pics, names, addresses and phone numbers. Your reality is what you want to believe it is, not what's really out there.

If this whole 'dial 1 for english' thing is just for people who immigrated here recently and havent had time to learn english, our immigration problem must be even larger than I feared. I mean, if the number of very recent illegal immigrants is enough to alter our society/language in a way no other immigration has done in the past 200 years, the number of over all illegals must be in the 10's of millions. Or.... maybe you are just grasping at straws like usual, because you just cant bring yourself to believe the attitude I discuss here in illegal Mexican immigrants really exists.

Your theory that we are finding Spanish thrust into our daily lives more and more every day is simply because so many Illegals Mexicans want to learn English, but just haven't yet... is laughably naive. The reality is its a sign of just how secure these illegals feel with breaking our laws. If you were going to sneak into Germany and attempt to live there secretly, would you continue speaking English? No, you'd learn German if for no other reason than to not get caught. But Mexicans know we will let them walk all over us without us raising an eyebrow.

Here you go assuming you know me and my experiences just like you assume you know what hispanics are thinking and what they experienced. I grew up around hispanics buddy. We have plenty of hispanic neighborhoods where I live and have a bunch of friends there and I'm there a lot. I simply said I've never met anyone that works here in a position that they need to speak to people that doesn't speak a word of english. How in the world could they get a job where they have to interact with customers if they don't speak englilsh? Even the ones that work in hispanic communities that I know speak a little english at least.

The whole press a number for spanish is because a lot of people here speak spanish. Why don't you understand that? Legal or illegal there's a lot here. That's the point you keep avoiding. Just like how other countries have English speakers in businesses because a lot of people that come to there speak english. Has nothing to do with being there legally or illegally.

Your theory that we are finding Spanish thrust into our daily lives more and more every day is simply because so many Illegals Mexicans want to learn English, but just haven't yet... is laughably naive.

Show me where I said this...... I've said it plenty of times, Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the entire world so how is it surprising when people here speak it. You say the reason that the reason the spanish language is spoken a lot here is because of the illegals, but this country has a large amount of hispanics here legally so how can you prove your theory?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

The whole press a number for spanish is because a lot of people here speak spanish. Why don't you understand that?

What you dont you understand is the point is they are here illegally. You say legally or illegal they are here, I say its a sign of the scale of this problem, and they need to get out. Why dont you understand that?

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

What portion of non-hispanic American's speak Spanish? What does a 'large portion' mean, and where did you get such specific data?

I said a large portion of the country speaks spanish and some of them are non-hispanic. Do you deny that a large portion of the country speaks spanish? I would love to see your proof that a majority of the people of here that speak spanish are here illegally.

I love how you liberals keep forgetting we are talking about illegal squatters here. Where's your link to the number of American's who illegally immigrated to other countries to live anonymously, and did NOT learn the native language of their new country? Because we are talking about illegal immigrants, not legal ones, not tourists, not business men on a business trip.

Again I say this, post proof that the majority of the hispanics here are here illegally. According to the last census I've seen the second largest race here are hispanics. Now since you assume that all these illegals don't know english how would the illegals fill out a census form they can't read? So based off your theory a majority of those hispanics who filled out the census must be here legally right?

But if you insist on comparing us to European countries who include English on their street signs etc... I can guarantee not a single one of those countries is doing it to conform to a wave of anonymous and illegal immigrants. Is it impossible for you to remember the details of the topic at hand? It seems to be. Hey I know, lets compare these Mexican illegal immigrants to Moses parting the Red Sea and letting the Jews 'immigrate' across it. That's like totally the same situation too!

Prove that the reason that spanish is popular in the U.S. is because of illegal immigrants. Since you're sooooo obsessed with facts here you go.

Hispanic Americans: Census Facts — Infoplease.com

Number of Illegal Immigrants Hits 12M

According to the first link there were over 40 million hispanics in the U.S in 2008. and that number has only grown at this point so they're probably over 50 million. And the amount of undocumented immigrants (not just hispanic) is estimated around 12-15 million then so it's probably higher now around 18-20 million. So we're talking about less than half the hispanics here are here illegally. I think that's a pretty good reason to allow the option for people to speak spanish if they wish. I know plenty of people who speak both spanish and english choose the option to speak spanish.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

What you dont you understand is the point is they are here illegally. You say legally or illegal they are here, I say its a sign of the scale of this problem, and they need to get out. Why dont you understand that?

A majority of the ones here are here legally though. So even if you get rid of the illegal ones the Hispanic population in the U.S. is still high and they will still be the second largest race in the U.S.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

A majority of the ones here are here legally though. So even if you get rid of the illegal ones the Hispanic population in the U.S. is still high and they will still be the second largest race in the U.S.

And the second largest race can learn the native language of the country they moved to, just like every other race has.

So much for your 'they all want to learn they just havent yet' theory I guess. Now you're back to they dont need to learn it. Its funny how quickly your exact argument changes to suit the discussion.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I said a large portion of the country speaks spanish and some of them are non-hispanic. Do you deny that a large portion of the country speaks spanish? I would love to see your proof that a majority of the people of here that speak spanish are here illegally.


Again I say this, post proof that the majority of the hispanics here are here illegally. According to the last census I've seen the second largest race here are hispanics. Now since you assume that all these illegals don't know english how would the illegals fill out a census form they can't read? So based off your theory a majority of those hispanics who filled out the census must be here legally right?

Prove that the reason that spanish is popular in the U.S. is because of illegal immigrants. Since you're sooooo obsessed with facts here you go.

Hispanic Americans: Census Facts — Infoplease.com

Number of Illegal Immigrants Hits 12M

According to the first link there were over 40 million hispanics in the U.S in 2008. and that number has only grown at this point so they're probably over 50 million. And the amount of undocumented immigrants (not just hispanic) is estimated around 12-15 million then so it's probably higher now around 18-20 million. So we're talking about less than half the hispanics here are here illegally. I think that's a pretty good reason to allow the option for people to speak spanish if they wish. I know plenty of people who speak both spanish and english choose the option to speak spanish.

You keep demanding I prove things I have not claimed, and in many instances have already refuted. Your inability to stay current with our discussion is getting boring tbh.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

A majority of the ones here are here legally though.

And those people speak english, so no need for any kind of spanish speaking option. What we're talking about here are illegals, and there are a ton down here, and they have no desire to learn english and partake in anything outside of their little Mexican worlds that they live in and don't have to speak english in. Also, I'd like to know how they come up with the estimate for the number of undocumented illegal aliens, as I'd wager that it is much more than they think it is, and growing faster than the legal population as well.

I generally vote liberal, but I can't stand people who defend illegal aliens as if they were legal, tax-paying immigrants. They deserve no rights in this country unless they are in the process of becoming a legal citizen, which hardly any of them want to do.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

And the second largest race can learn the native language of the country they moved to, just like every other race has.
So much for your 'they all want to learn they just havent yet' theory I guess. Now you're back to they dont need to learn it. Its funny how quickly your exact argument changes to suit the discussion.

Oh my god. I told you that the reason that America has integrated the spanish language into businesses is because there are a lot of hispanics here. You claimed it's because of the amount of illegals here. I then posted proof that over half of the Hispanics here are here legally which proves my point that the reason that spanish has been integrated so much is because there are a lot of hispanics here. We're talking about less than 10% of the total U.S. population that don't speak English fluently. Probably even less than that

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

You keep demanding I prove things I have not claimed, and in many instances have already refuted. Your inability to stay current with our discussion is getting boring tbh.

You're the one who claimed that the reason businesses offer spanish as an option is because of the amount of illegal hispanics in this country. Are you going to deny you said that now?

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

And I find it hilarious how your whole argument is based on illegals breaking the law by coming here illegally and you act as if that's the reason it bothers you. But then you get upset when businesses offer an option to speak spanish, which has nothing to do with the illegals. There's no law against speaking spanish or offering customers/clients an option to speak spanish. Nobody's breaking any laws but this upsets you too. I wonder why that is?

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

You claimed it's because of the amount of illegals here.

It is. Why would a business want to alienate(pun intended) a large number of people by not trying to accomodate them and help draw them into their business/products? It would be stupid of a business to not offer a spanish speaking option, it simply brings in more money for them.

 

[LazyRider 10+ year member]

It is. Why would a business want to alienate(pun intended) a large number of people by not trying to accomodate them and help draw them into their business/products? It would be stupid of a business to not offer a spanish speaking option, it simply brings in more money for them.

Keep in mind you're referring to like less than 10% of the total U.S. population. So what exactly do you consider a large number of people?