I want a "Wowing" 18

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

HOLY SHIT!?!?!?!?!
FLAME HIM!!!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/flamer.gif.1fb8372af2de4b576aa9428ccc8a8f2f.gif

...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

excuse me, but are you mentally handicapped?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

My arguement isn't BASED on the fact that most subs aren't offered in 18's, it just illustrates the point...

And your list just illustrates my point that 15's are stupid and pointless.

Also notice that the ones which don't offer 15's either are some of the most expensive

Not really.

and best SQ lines out there.

Which further proves the point that 15" are pointless in an SQ setup, since all of these great SQ lines don't offer them.

Thank you.

and yes there is larger percentage increase, in smaller sizes... not price... otherwise you would probably never sell an 18.

If part of your argument is based on price differential, which it is, as such as is mine.....it is less cost effective to go from a 12" to a 15" than from a 15" to an 18"

So tell me why a 15" is worthwhile? My position, based on your logic, is that it's stupid unless you are trying to prove something. The extra "headroom" is not worth the extra cost. And look at all these great SQ lines which DON'T offer a 15" sub.

MY ONLY POINT is, was, and will allways be...

that in a line of high dollar SQ subs...

The headroom achieved in an 15 vs a 12 is not worth the price increase.

So no one buys them, so no one makes them.

ergo: buying 15's for SQ is stupid unless you have a specific goal in mind (like proving that solo-x can sound good.

(sound familiar?)

i don't have much experience with the RL-p, never heard one installed i was just going by this:

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Then maybe you should not speak of things you do not know

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[cotjones 10+ year member]

...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif
excuse me, but are you mentally handicapped?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

ARE YOU?

you just said the same thing i've been saying the entire thread...

WHY get an 18, pay extra money and waste space, when a 15, 12, 10, 8 is good enough for most people looking for an SQ system.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

And your list just illustrates my point that 15's are stupid and pointless.

well for a lot of people they might be, but there are many more SQ setups that 15's would be reasonable in than 18's

Not really.

Rainbows, Focals, JL's, Image dynamics, Helix, Dynadio... those are some pretty big names in SQ

Which further proves the point that 15" are pointless in an SQ setup, since all of these great SQ lines don't offer them.
Thank you.

This is where i would take audioholic's arguement a little bit more into consideration... the headroom from a 15 would be very usefull in MID-HIGH-grade subs when you actually need it... however in the higher-end lines like focal and ID, you have AWARD winning SQ and super-low distortion even without any headroom. So it is even more pointless to buy much headroom the lower the distorition and higher quality of the sub.

If part of your argument is based on price differential, which it is, as such as is mine.....it is less cost effective to go from a 12" to a 15" than from a 15" to an 18"

the cost effectiveness is one of the things you should take into consideration when buying your setup... it may be true that some lines are less cost effective in bigger lines than others.

So tell me why a 15" is worthwhile? My position, based on your logic, is that it's stupid unless you are trying to prove something. The extra "headroom" is not worth the extra cost. And look at all these great SQ lines which DON'T offer a 15" sub.

i addressed this above

MY ONLY POINT is, was, and will allways be...
that in a line of high dollar SQ subs...

The headroom achieved in an 15 vs a 12 is not worth the price increase.

So no one buys them, so no one makes them.

ergo: buying 15's for SQ is stupid unless you have a specific goal in mind (like proving that solo-x can sound good.

15's aren't nearly as un-reasonable for headroom, space restrictions, etc as 18's are... personally i wouldn't buy a high-end sub in a 15 for an SQ setup... if i have to, why am i buying a high-end brand to begin with?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
Then maybe you should not speak of things you do not know

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i think you can give me a freebie on one brand out of all of the ones I mentioned, and i did admit i didn't know much about it.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gifARE YOU?

you just said the same thing i've been saying the entire thread...

WHY get an 18, pay extra money and waste space, when a 15, 12, 10, 8 is good enough for most people looking for an SQ system.

Because it has the potential to sound better.

I in no way stated it'd be dumb to do...by your logic, why get a 15? why get a 12? why get a 10? there are plenty of 8's that can get plenty loud, so all SQ setups should use a single 8 and that's it.

 

[infamous_e46 5,000+ posts]

i think cotjones posting while he is on the phone with a jl rep

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Because it has the potential to sound better.
I in no way stated it'd be dumb to do...by your logic, why get a 15? why get a 12? why get a 10? there are plenty of 8's that can get plenty loud, so all SQ setups should use a single 8 and that's it.

OK, if you could get the output you wanted out of an 8, SQ that pleased you out of a 10 at the same output as the 8... win awards for sq with a 12 at the same output... how again is it smart to say "fvck it, i want 18's"

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

OK, if you could get the output you wanted out of an 8, SQ that pleased you out of a 10 at the same output as the 8... win awards for sq with a 12 at the same output... how again is it smart to say "fvck it, i want 18's"

So what if you need the output of a 12 for your particular application? In your analysis, now it would be smart to 'win awards for sq' with the 18?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Squeak does that not make sense?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

So what if you need the output of a 12 for your particular application? In your analysis, now it would be smart to 'win awards for sq' with the 18?

it would be great in that situation...

However a couple points...

The output gained going from a 8-10

most SQ setups will not need that much output, wats the point of having SQ when you have to cover your ears... My 13" w6v2 gets WAY louder than i can imagine ever needing for a pure SQ setup... from hearing it, there is no way I'd buy a 15 in that model for an SQ setup, and definitely no 18 esspecially at the price it would cause

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

well for a lot of people they might be, but there are many more SQ setups that 15's would be reasonable in than 18's

And there are more still where a 12" would be more reasonable than a 15"

Rainbows, Focals, JL's, Image dynamics, Helix, Dynadio... those are some pretty big names in SQ

Doesn't make them the "most expensive".

There are a lot of woofers in their same price range, and many that are more expensive.

This is where i would take audioholic's arguement a little bit more into consideration... the headroom from a 15 would be very usefull in MID-HIGH-grade subs when you actually need it...

Most high displacement 12's are able to reach adequate levels. Look at all those SQ subwoofer manufacturers who don't offer 15's. If 15's were so important to SQ, wouldn't these SQ companies offer them?

however in the higher-end lines like focal and ID, you have AWARD winning SQ and super-low distortion even without any headroom. So it is even more pointless to buy much headroom the lower the distorition and higher quality of the sub.

To break from character for a moment;

I haven't seen any measurements of Focal's subs, but the IDMax isn't anything too special in either the distortion or linearity department.

But aside from that, just about any sub operating at Xmax is going to be in the 10% THD department. If one were inclined to seek the lowest possible distortion, you'd want to maximize your cone area to minimize the required excursion. As such, one in such a position would be better off to look at 1) larger cone areas, or 2) an array of smaller diameter subs (the more costly option). There is ALWAYS a benefit to higher available displacement. Which invalidates your argument.

Okay, back into character......

the cost effectiveness is one of the things you should take into consideration when buying your setup... it may be true that some lines are less cost effective in bigger lines than others.

You dodged the question, and certainly didn't use such graceful wording in your attack on 18" drivers.

i addressed this above

You have yet to provide a compelling argument for the use of 15" subs.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

And there are more still where a 12" would be more reasonable than a 15"


Doesn't make them the "most expensive".

There are a lot of woofers in their same price range, and many that are more expensive.

Most high displacement 12's are able to reach adequate levels. Look at all those SQ subwoofer manufacturers who don't offer 15's. If 15's were so important to SQ, wouldn't these SQ companies offer them?

To break from character for a moment;

I haven't seen any measurements of Focal's subs, but the IDMax isn't anything too special in either the distortion or linearity department.

But aside from that, just about any sub operating at Xmax is going to be in the 10% THD department. If one were inclined to seek the lowest possible distortion, you'd want to maximize your cone area to minimize the required excursion. As such, one in such a position would be better off to look at 1) larger cone areas, or 2) an array of smaller diameter subs (the more costly option). There is ALWAYS a benefit to higher available displacement. Which invalidates your argument.

Okay, back into character......

You dodged the question, and certainly didn't use such graceful wording in your attack on 18" drivers.

You have yet to provide a compelling argument for the use of 15" subs.

No, you said it... there is allways an advantage in going bigger...

my point is not to discredit that at all, i thoroughly believe that...

My point is that in an SQ setup, you DO NOT want your substage over-powering the rest of your setup... the advantage in distortion for most mid-lines from the larger cone would probably warrant 15, particularly only using 1. But going to an 18 the advantages dwindle compared to the disadvantages (cost, space, etc.) particularly in higher end lines when distortion at even at Xmax is lower.

 

[Grinder1989 5,000+ posts]

No, you said it... there is allways an advantage in going bigger...my point is not to discredit that at all, i thoroughly believe that...

My point is that in an SQ setup, you DO NOT want your substage over-powering the rest of your setup... the advantage in distortion for most mid-lines from the larger cone would probably warrant 15, particularly only using 1. But going to an 18 the advantages dwindle compared to the disadvantages (cost, space, etc.) particularly in higher end lines when distortion at even at Xmax is lower.

Hey cot, it's called adjusting your gain. If you wanted an 18 not to be louder than your 15, you turn the gain down.....Its a very simple process.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Hey cot, it's called adjusting your gain. If you wanted an 18 not to be louder than your 15, you turn the gain down.....Its a very simple process.

did you not even read my post

does turning your gain down reduce the size of your box,

does turning your gain down reduce the money you paid for your subs?

does turning your gain down help your conscience when you are thinking, "WHY the **** did i buy 3 times the sub i needed?"

 

[Mc_Hammer 10+ year member]

did you not even read my post
does turning your gain down reduce the size of your box,

does turning your gain down reduce the money you paid for your subs?

does turning your gain down help your conscience when you are thinking, "WHY the **** did i buy 3 times the sub i needed?"

does turning your gain down on a larger sub not decrease the overall amount of distortion since the larger cone is working less to produce the same output... last time i checked low distortion is what you want in "SQ" competitions