- Thread Starter
- #31
I appreciate both of you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I don;t switch out speakers, I build the system and enjoy it and keep my cars for 10 years or more.
- Thread Starter
- #32
I guess I could hole saw the door frame and get a deeper tweet in there, I have enough room left and right to go bigger but any tweet could not have a mounting bracket around it.
Yeah, I'm a regular over there.
That picture is deceiving. I'm betting with all the curves and bends, you really do have a very limited space.
You could fabricate pretty easily something to fit in that space. Using the original grill though will be limiting.
How wide is the tweeter shown in the picture, and how deep is it? Is there a way to tell how much space you have between the edge of the tweeter and the back of the grill?
- Thread Starter
- #34
I just measured it, it's 1" across and about 1" deep max without cutting or bending the door frame. I don't have a real problem "adjusting" that door frame if I need to and either cutting it out or bending it back into itself. Side to side I have about 2".
Something about cutting the door frame doesn't sit well with me.
There's a lot of engineering that goes into the structure of that specific part. It would be horrible if that cut propogated a failure if you get hit in the side. Just a warning...
There's a lot of engineering that goes into the structure of that specific part. It would be horrible if that cut propogated a failure if you get hit in the side. Just a warning...
Don't cut the door frame.
Making a new grill to fit the existing one wouldn't be that difficult. But before we go into that, how would the following tweeter work in that area?
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/lpg.pdf
Specifically the 25, or 26 at 48 mm wide and 10 mm deep.
That tweeter would mate well with either the AC130 or the CA15.
The following if you could fit it would work very well with any of the three I suggested earlier.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=504741.16415&pid=669
Take a 3/4" thick piece of wood and cut it to 2" x 2". Actually anything 2" x 2" x .75" would work. See how that would fit behind the stock grill. Keep cutting it down till you see exactly how much room you have.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. Let's find out exactly what can be fit back there.
Making a new grill to fit the existing one wouldn't be that difficult. But before we go into that, how would the following tweeter work in that area?
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/lpg.pdf
Specifically the 25, or 26 at 48 mm wide and 10 mm deep.
That tweeter would mate well with either the AC130 or the CA15.
The following if you could fit it would work very well with any of the three I suggested earlier.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=504741.16415&pid=669
Take a 3/4" thick piece of wood and cut it to 2" x 2". Actually anything 2" x 2" x .75" would work. See how that would fit behind the stock grill. Keep cutting it down till you see exactly how much room you have.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. Let's find out exactly what can be fit back there.
- Thread Starter
- #37
My installer told me to get something in the 25-28mm range. At least I think I understood him correctly. There "may" be another option too.
Please look at the red arrow. Stock is a 2.5" midrange in this location.
I would be nice to use that apillar for tweet, the AC130 for midbass and a 2.5 midrange to help boost the lack of midrange of the AC130. That is..if I can get a 2 7/8 inch driver in the door. I was told 2 5/8 with spacers. "Maybe" we can sneek another 1/4" in there.
BTW, I saw a test Zaph did on the Vifa vs, seas tweet here. Zaph knows his stuff.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-62142.html
I think I will drive back to the installer again today and see what depth he can do and what physical mods he suggests. It's over an hour to get to him and I've been out there 3 times so far. I want this build as good as it can be and don't mind spending time to get it right. I just want to make sure what I do is right though.
Please look at the red arrow. Stock is a 2.5" midrange in this location.
I would be nice to use that apillar for tweet, the AC130 for midbass and a 2.5 midrange to help boost the lack of midrange of the AC130. That is..if I can get a 2 7/8 inch driver in the door. I was told 2 5/8 with spacers. "Maybe" we can sneek another 1/4" in there.
BTW, I saw a test Zaph did on the Vifa vs, seas tweet here. Zaph knows his stuff.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-62142.html
I think I will drive back to the installer again today and see what depth he can do and what physical mods he suggests. It's over an hour to get to him and I've been out there 3 times so far. I want this build as good as it can be and don't mind spending time to get it right. I just want to make sure what I do is right though.
- Thread Starter
- #38
took the grill off. Looks like it's 1 5/8" across and at least 1" deep maybe more because I could not get that driver out.
I believe the stock BMW 528i configution is something like this:
Front System: 3 way component set
Front Midbass:5.25in
Front Midrange:2.5in
Front Tweeter: ~5/8in
Rear System: 2 way
Rear Woofer: 6x9
Rear Tweeter: ~5/8in suspended above the 6x9
I believe the stock BMW 528i configution is something like this:
Front System: 3 way component set
Front Midbass:5.25in
Front Midrange:2.5in
Front Tweeter: ~5/8in
Rear System: 2 way
Rear Woofer: 6x9
Rear Tweeter: ~5/8in suspended above the 6x9
I'm starting to think that the Morel MDT12 will be a great option. I know it can extend low enough to mate up with a 7" midbass mounted well off-axis, so a 5 1/2" should be no problems. If you are concerned with the midrange clarity, then the L15 is the driver for you. With the MDT12 you should have no problem crossing over the L15 early enough to avoid the wicked (as Zaph stated) cone breakup. The MDT12 also looks like it will fit into the stock tweeter location which is a bonus. If it doesn't then it will definitely fit into the stock midrange location.
Zaph has a design using the L15 and a Seas Aluminum tweet. He used a 6db slope with a notch filter for the cone breakup (basically a bastardized second order filter). That translates to me that a 18 or 24 db slope should make it virtually inaudible.
I really think you should stick to 2-way and make that work. The available midrange choices at the size of the stock location are very, very limited, and really act no better than a midsized format tweeter.
The MDT12 is a very nice sounding tweeter. It's shallow enough to fit into the stock location, and could probably be manipulated into that area. It's a very smooth, and detailed tweeter.
So, my final suggestion is the L15 mated with an MDT12. The AC130 is still a great option if that's the route you'd rather go, but the L15 will have better midrange clarity, with very little sacrifice in the midbass.
Zaph has a design using the L15 and a Seas Aluminum tweet. He used a 6db slope with a notch filter for the cone breakup (basically a bastardized second order filter). That translates to me that a 18 or 24 db slope should make it virtually inaudible.
I really think you should stick to 2-way and make that work. The available midrange choices at the size of the stock location are very, very limited, and really act no better than a midsized format tweeter.
The MDT12 is a very nice sounding tweeter. It's shallow enough to fit into the stock location, and could probably be manipulated into that area. It's a very smooth, and detailed tweeter.
So, my final suggestion is the L15 mated with an MDT12. The AC130 is still a great option if that's the route you'd rather go, but the L15 will have better midrange clarity, with very little sacrifice in the midbass.
- Thread Starter
- #40
Ok, L15 and Mdt12 it will be then. I went out to meet with the installer and he was unavailable. It's a 2 hour ordeal out there and back and I've made 3 trips so far. The next trip I make will be for the install.
Lets. recap so I have this right:
Mdt12 at top door location shown in post #38 powered by my 100x2.
L15 in door on a 18db or 24db slope powered by my 200x2
ED12 sub powered by 900x1
Now, what are my xover points for each driver and what xover network model and brand should I buy?
Lets. recap so I have this right:
Mdt12 at top door location shown in post #38 powered by my 100x2.
L15 in door on a 18db or 24db slope powered by my 200x2
ED12 sub powered by 900x1
Now, what are my xover points for each driver and what xover network model and brand should I buy?
If you can fit the tweeter in the A-Pillar location, I'd try that first.
As for a crossover, you'll need something with a bandpass capability. The crossover in my sig works very well, and uses an 18db slope, it's the Coustic XM-5e. The Memphis 16-X03 is very good as well as a bunch of others. I'm on the assumption that you're trying to keep the cost down, so I'm not recommending some of the higher priced options like the RF 360.2, or PPI DCX-730.
As for a crossover, you'll need something with a bandpass capability. The crossover in my sig works very well, and uses an 18db slope, it's the Coustic XM-5e. The Memphis 16-X03 is very good as well as a bunch of others. I'm on the assumption that you're trying to keep the cost down, so I'm not recommending some of the higher priced options like the RF 360.2, or PPI DCX-730.
- Thread Starter
- #42
Got it, apillar if I can.
Yes cost is always a factor. I just need something that will do what's it's supposed to do and nothing else. Once complete I won't be touching what the installer finishes. As I stated, my audio goes in and then it's done for this car as long as I have the car which is usually forvere. I'm not a speaker HU bigger and better and switch every other month kind of guy.
The installer suggested Audiocontrol EQT or EQL. We talked about a lot of things that day and so I appreciate all your advice. I'm not a name brand snob, just something that won't add noise and can get the job done as you've outlined here. It could be pink and basic for all I care //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Yes cost is always a factor. I just need something that will do what's it's supposed to do and nothing else. Once complete I won't be touching what the installer finishes. As I stated, my audio goes in and then it's done for this car as long as I have the car which is usually forvere. I'm not a speaker HU bigger and better and switch every other month kind of guy.
The installer suggested Audiocontrol EQT or EQL. We talked about a lot of things that day and so I appreciate all your advice. I'm not a name brand snob, just something that won't add noise and can get the job done as you've outlined here. It could be pink and basic for all I care //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
The audio control stuff is good, but the EQT or EQL will do nothing for you in this situation. They're EQ's not crossovers. The DQX, and DQXS are great units, but definitely don't fall in the realm of simple, and at $500.00 are definitely not budget units.
Units like the DQX and the PPI DCX-730 have many more features than just crossovers. For fine tuning a system, they're extremely valuable. For your situation, I'd stick to the Memphis unit. That is unless you see yourself starting to care about equalization, and time alignment in the future. If that does happen you can alway upgrade your deck instead to a Pioneer 880PRS, for about $350.00.
If you're patient you can probably find the Memphis 16-X03 on ebay for under $100.00. That would put your total cost to under your proposed budget of $300 with speakers. Even if you buy that unit retail, you should still be okay on budget.
Units like the DQX and the PPI DCX-730 have many more features than just crossovers. For fine tuning a system, they're extremely valuable. For your situation, I'd stick to the Memphis unit. That is unless you see yourself starting to care about equalization, and time alignment in the future. If that does happen you can alway upgrade your deck instead to a Pioneer 880PRS, for about $350.00.
If you're patient you can probably find the Memphis 16-X03 on ebay for under $100.00. That would put your total cost to under your proposed budget of $300 with speakers. Even if you buy that unit retail, you should still be okay on budget.
- Thread Starter
- #44
You have been a very helpful to me, thank you.
I hoped I could do this on a reasonable budget. I'm a member of most of the major BMW forums and this model car of car is the one that is the most people find almost impossbile to upgrade to any great degree without spending large sums of money or cutting the car. Even then, most end up with mbquart and kicker. I don't have to own the very best on the planet but something that is a sizeable upgrade makes sense. Seas and Morel go a long way to that very purpose.
The dash kit has to be custom made for this car. I have looked at everything made for this car and there is NOTHING that makes any sense at all. As a matter of fact, the dash kist are down right idiotic. This model BMW is the e39 and while there may be more aftermarket parts for this body style than any car EVER produced, there is not a dash kit that does not look like a total hack and an after thought. Trust me, we have all looked. My only choice is custom made and this is yet another audio challenge here with this car.
I tend to follow the addage,."You get 90% of the sound from the first $1000.00 and then spend another $5000.00 to get another 5%." Close is good enough for me. Case in point is my sub. The ed10a needs very little power, works well in smallish enclosures yet is clean and punchy. Do I really need 2 12's? Not for me. No, I can't hit 20hz but a clean 30 is close enough for me and I can enjoy the car without chest pains. This car is my daily driver so SQ not SPL is the name of this game.
My son's car has been broken into 3 times to steal his stereo gear. His HU said, "I am expensive, please steal me." In spite of having alarms systems the crooks got away with what they could and left the car in broken glass. That's one reason my choice for HU was the Nak cd-400. Flashy it's not (no dancing dolphins on 7" LED) but has very solid clean sound and looks stock on the BMW. This HU will come out of my older BMW and it was never touched by thieves. Why would they steal what looks like a $50.00 radio?
I'm trying to be smart about all of this across the board.
I hoped I could do this on a reasonable budget. I'm a member of most of the major BMW forums and this model car of car is the one that is the most people find almost impossbile to upgrade to any great degree without spending large sums of money or cutting the car. Even then, most end up with mbquart and kicker. I don't have to own the very best on the planet but something that is a sizeable upgrade makes sense. Seas and Morel go a long way to that very purpose.
The dash kit has to be custom made for this car. I have looked at everything made for this car and there is NOTHING that makes any sense at all. As a matter of fact, the dash kist are down right idiotic. This model BMW is the e39 and while there may be more aftermarket parts for this body style than any car EVER produced, there is not a dash kit that does not look like a total hack and an after thought. Trust me, we have all looked. My only choice is custom made and this is yet another audio challenge here with this car.
I tend to follow the addage,."You get 90% of the sound from the first $1000.00 and then spend another $5000.00 to get another 5%." Close is good enough for me. Case in point is my sub. The ed10a needs very little power, works well in smallish enclosures yet is clean and punchy. Do I really need 2 12's? Not for me. No, I can't hit 20hz but a clean 30 is close enough for me and I can enjoy the car without chest pains. This car is my daily driver so SQ not SPL is the name of this game.
My son's car has been broken into 3 times to steal his stereo gear. His HU said, "I am expensive, please steal me." In spite of having alarms systems the crooks got away with what they could and left the car in broken glass. That's one reason my choice for HU was the Nak cd-400. Flashy it's not (no dancing dolphins on 7" LED) but has very solid clean sound and looks stock on the BMW. This HU will come out of my older BMW and it was never touched by thieves. Why would they steal what looks like a $50.00 radio?
I'm trying to be smart about all of this across the board.
- Thread Starter
- #45
Ok, I did as you said.
I bought this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=270103352651
Ok, now what should be my xover points on these speakers?
I bought this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=270103352651
Ok, now what should be my xover points on these speakers?
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