Holy mother of god, Powerbase PBX 15" installed

[stangme01 10+ year member]

How about get some good mids with a small amp? that will take care of the upper bass that you speak of because a sub is made for lower bass not upper:nono:

what a crock, guarantee you if I threw in a Magnum or PBX and used a 80-90hz crossover point 24db or even 36db and then threw in a xxx, h2, or brahma, did the same crossover point same slope 99.9% of people would prefer the sound of the pbx and magnum because of their "tight" sound and upper bass (not midbass like you are assuming i mean, I'm talking between 70-100hz).

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Define 'tight', considering you will get less distortion out of an Xbl^2 driver than basically any other motor out there...

 

[imready77 10+ year member]

snova ygpm

 

[Omarvelous 10+ year member]

the question is

Coming from a 12" XXX not EQed, would I get the same or more satisfaction from a 12" PBX not EQed, as in same or better sq with same or better spl?

Because i hear u talkin a lot about EQing.

Even though i plan on gettin some things from AudioControl, i need to know this for reference.

Also have u thought about recording the sound or me callin u to hear yet?

 

[nateone 10+ year member]

PBX'S.. they sound alright. remember their spl subs. they arent infinity kappa vq's. but they sound aight. they get LOOOOOOOOUDDDDDDDDDDDDD end of story

 

[stangme01 10+ year member]

no I think all subs REALLY REALLY need eq'd, but 'tight" does not indicate more or less distortion, its just a characteristic of the sound. You could not eq the xxx to sound like the PBX, the xxx has its own type of sound.

Also in a car MOST of your distortion come from the car, not the speaker, so in car audio I wouldn't be too worried and wrapped up in speaker distortion because normal distortion added to a decent volume level subwoofer is ~20-40%. We're comparing xxx distortion of like 7-8% to a SGLC LGLC which might have 4-8% more at full volume. Its negligable to the ear in a car. In the house its a little more important but even then most home stereos have an admitted 10%+ distortion just from the amp at full volume, let alone the added speaker distortion.

Tight is just the sound of the sub, as I said, not something to determine distortion.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

no I think all subs REALLY REALLY need eq'd, but 'tight" does not indicate more or less distortion, its just a characteristic of the sound. You could not eq the xxx to sound like the PBX, the xxx has its own type of sound.
Also in a car MOST of your distortion come from the car, not the speaker, so in car audio I wouldn't be too worried and wrapped up in speaker distortion because normal distortion added to a decent volume level subwoofer is ~20-40%. We're comparing xxx distortion of like 7-8% to a SGLC LGLC which might have 4-8% more at full volume. Its negligable to the ear in a car. In the house its a little more important but even then most home stereos have an admitted 10%+ distortion just from the amp at full volume, let alone the added speaker distortion.

Tight is just the sound of the sub, as I said, not something to determine distortion.

Xbl^2 will distort 1-2% within xmax...

Most will agree that distortion is detectable at around 3%....

I believe Dan Wiggins tested distortion levels within linear movement, LGLC motor was right around 6% IIRC....thats triple the distortion of the Xbl motor...

 

[stangme01 10+ year member]

Xbl^2 will distort 1-2% within xmax...
Most will agree that distortion is detectable at around 3%....

I believe Dan Wiggins tested distortion levels within linear movement, LGLC motor was right around 6% IIRC....thats triple the distortion of the Xbl motor...

yeah and now add the distortion from the car itself say for sake of arguement a car with lower effects of distortion. Say 20%, so now xbl^2 22%, and a non-xbl^2

sub 26%. I GUARANTEE you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the car.

Speaker distortion is one of the least important aspects of a speakers overal performance to the ear. More important is timing (group delay), transient response,

flat response etc.

I don't know why you are trying to turn this into me agains XBL^2? OR ME agains RE, i for one will probably be buying some more SE 15 's in the near future, some RE8's, and DEFINITELY some Adire koda 10's or 12's to play around with. I just PREFER the pbx OVERALL than the xxx. BUT in an extreme case, like what I'm about to do, which is to add 10" midbass's in my front doors, a xxx would be perfect.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

yeah and now add the distortion from the car itself say for sake of arguement a car with lower effects of distortion. Say 20%, so now xbl^2 22%, and a non-xbl^2sub 26%. I GUARANTEE you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in the car.

Speaker distortion is one of the least important aspects of a speakers overal performance to the ear. More important is timing (group delay), transient response,

flat response etc.

I don't know why you are trying to turn this into me agains XBL^2? OR ME agains RE, i for one will probably be buying some more SE 15 's in the near future, some RE8's, and DEFINITELY some Adire koda 10's or 12's to play around with. I just PREFER the pbx OVERALL than the xxx. BUT in an extreme case, like what I'm about to do, which is to add 10" midbass's in my front doors, a xxx would be perfect.

I'm not, simply wondering what 'tight' to you means...you say your opinion with certain drivers, I counter with mine. It has nothing to do with you, just differentiating opinions. I'm actually glad that we conduct things the way we do without personal retorts...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Now that you mention transient response, don't BL, Mms and inductance play a role in transient response?...Now, with that in mind, think about an Xbl^2 motor...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm not all that educated in group delay, but as far as I know, it involves the alignment, and it's frequency roll off. The harder the roll-off, the larger change in phase, thus resulting in a higher group delay (someone correct me if I'm wrong?)

I'm glad you have good reults with the PBX- it's a driver that I've been intrigued by lately, and it's glad to have an unbiased opinion on it, as I've heard results, but mainly from dealers.

 

[stangme01 10+ year member]

I'm not, simply wondering what 'tight' to you means...you say your opinion with certain drivers, I counter with mine. It has nothing to do with you, just differentiating opinions. I'm actually glad that we conduct things the way we do without personal retorts...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Now that you mention transient response, don't BL, Mms and inductance play a role in transient response?...Now, with that in mind, think about an Xbl^2 motor...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm not all that educated in group delay, but as far as I know, it involves the alignment, and it's frequency roll off. The harder the roll-off, the larger change in phase, thus resulting in a higher group delay (someone correct me if I'm wrong?)

I'm glad you have good reults with the PBX- it's a driver that I've been intrigued by lately, and it's glad to have an unbiased opinion on it, as I've heard results, but mainly from dealers.

Oh I know we were just talking about speaker distortion, and I was explaining why it wasn't that important compared to other aspects of a sub setup.

Group delay works a little different with all different drivers, but yes the alignment plays a large role in how consistant it is.

 

[Omarvelous 10+ year member]

hmmm.... ok! i guess i'm going to stick with my XXX, and maybe pick up a PBX to play with.

 

[blackgeltabs 5,000+ posts]

A basic observation:

This has been a very good thread with real info based replys(unlike this one). People are scrutinizing this man heavily for his observations on this sub and obviously Stang is no idiot. My problem is if any "well known" member made this overall evaluation of this sub no one would question the sub, and infact there would probably be 20 replies promoting the sub within lets say a half hour.

If Stang has used all the subs that you say you have then you have done a great job defending the PBX, which is why most members at this forum can't put up a good fight with you. You and Snova have made this thread good, the rest is just basic meaningless comments telling you your wrong because the XXX, the MAG, etc. are the god of all subs.

Like I said, my basic observation

 

[stangme01 10+ year member]

hmmm.... ok! i guess i'm going to stick with my XXX, and maybe pick up a PBX to play with.

you're worrying about what me and snova are talking about too much. The best way to see how well a sub performs is actually hearing it. But hey if you can afford to buy the PBX and hang on to the xxx, thats always the best thing to do though!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[stangme01 10+ year member]

A basic observation:
This has been a very good thread with real info based replys(unlike this one). People are scrutinizing this man heavily for his observations on this sub and obviously Stang is no idiot. My problem is if any "well known" member made this overall evaluation of this sub no one would question the sub, and infact there would probably be 20 replies promoting the sub within lets say a half hour.

If Stang has used all the subs that you say you have then you have done a great job defending the PBX, which is why most members at this forum can't put up a good fight with you. You and Snova have made this thread good, the rest is just basic meaningless comments telling you your wrong because the XXX, the MAG, etc. are the god of all subs.

Like I said, my basic observation

thanks, yeah its a tough crowd in here //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif