Have 2 new Alpine Type X's, thinking of switching for more SPL (DC level 3's?)

[Sepeti522]

I wouldn't give up on the subs either. Post specs of the box. Listen to suggestions sounds like there's room for improvement without having to change subs. Lot more to it than just subs. Box could be wrong for meeting your expectations 

Thank you for advice. I'm thinking I'll do at least a big 3 upgrade and the stuff @Dylan Beatz suggested. I posted this question to him as well but I have an opportunity to get 2 sundown x v2 15's for about 480. I know that would definitely require big electrical upgrades but what you think sbout that deal and those subs?

 

[Sepeti522]

:iagree:

That's a pretty big trunk and opening IIRC

I'd go bigger for sure, that enclosure pictured above looks like a prefab to me.

OP... even a somewhat larger box with a low tune would make a big difference I bet, Those W12's are D4's correct?.. so you're at 4 ohm nominal currently with that amp?

Correct me if I'm wrong

@PPVtahoe11 I'm gonna do some electrical upgrades like big 3 as suggested by Dylanbeatz. But I'm definitely willing to look into a new box... problem is I dont know **** about how to make them. Is there anyone here whod be able to give me specs on how to make a box to those specs? Also they are running on 2 ohms. At 4 ohms they blew my fuses and car wouldn't start.

Also if you wouldn't mind looking at the question I posed on the previous 2 comments about the sundowns x v2's and sharing any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Sepeti522]

Nope only 2 ohm. Maybe he's wired in series but he's really under powering if so. Surprised it's not going into protect if he's at 1ohm.. Maybe he is and not describing he's problem correctly.

Pretty sure the x is only available d4 could be wrong.

So I am running at 2 ohms. But heres where 8m still confused, despite getting responses to this question, but my jl rd1000.1 has a light that shows when you're clipping and they are still clipping despite only receiving half their RMS power... I dont get how or why that's happening... 

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thank you a ton for that chart! I knew what clipping was but didnt really understand what it is... if that makes sense? That really helped me understand! Thank you. So even if a sub has an RMS of say 1500 and your only giving it 900, you could still end up clipping? 

But yeah SPL is what I'm looking for... and like I said, I love my type X's but just want more flex and feeling it in your chest if I'm able on my stock electric. And since I am new to the scene and haven't been able to listen to some of the more serious brands and hear possible different subs I'm interested in (like dc 3's, sundown, deaf bonce) to know how they compare to the X's... but if they are fairly similar to the X's and really upping my SPL will require an electrical upgrade before I go with a new sub I'll stick with what I have until I can upgrade electrical. Hopefully that makes sense. 

So I am running at 2 ohms. But heres where 8m still confused, despite getting responses to this question, but my jl rd1000.1 has a light that shows when you're clipping and they are still clipping despite only receiving half their RMS power... I dont get how or why that's happening... 

View attachment 3568

No you dont understand what clipping is at all. Its not originating from the sub, its the amp thats clipping. You clip the signal from trying to get more power out of the amp than the amp can provide which forces a shitty dirty signal to your sub which causes massive heat build ups. It doesnt matter what the subs are rated at, its irrelevant, its your amp completely maxed out and you trying to get more out of the amp. Its purely a weak amplifier issue, no relation to the sub's rms values whatsoever.

Basically you dont like how weak it sounds, you crank the gain up and now the subs sound like complete **** without getting any louder and you'll eventually blow them like that. 

Either get a more efficient box design, A louder car, or electrical upgrades + 3.5k rms korean amp and wire to half ohm. After box rise your subs wont see much power at all so you are right now severely underpowering those subs if they really are rated for 1500 rms.   Why wire to half ohm? because of box rise.  Doesnt matter what the amp says, right now you are wired to 2 ohms you'll never get 1000 rms out of the amp, when the sub moves and the coil travels through the magnet, your impedance will change depending on the frequencies played. 

Being wired to 2 ohms you are more likely seeing 4-8 ohms power out of the amp so more like 300-600 rms total for both subs which is severely under powered wich each sub getting less than 300 watts each. Its not because the amp is bad or under performing, thats just how physics and car audio works, you are getting proper power just at a much higher actual real world impedance. Go do a few true rms clamp tests in a few car audio competitions and you'll quickly see that you'll never get the 1 or 2 ohm claimed power rating out of any amp unless its a regulated power supply amp.  Box rise is typically 3 x your wired impedance so thats why i'd recommend stout korean amps that can handle half ohm and you'll see around 1.5 ohm power out of them and they are usually underatted so you'll get the full rms power needed to fully power your type Xs.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

dbl post

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

trple post

 

[Sepeti522]

No you dont understand what clipping is. Its not originating from the sub, its the amp thats clipping. You clip the signal from trying to get more power out of the amp than the amp can provide which forces a shitty dirty signal to your sub which causes massive heat build ups.

Basically you dont like how weak it sounds, you crank the gain up and now the subs sound like complete **** without getting any louder and you'll eventually blow them like that. 

Either get a more efficient box design, A louder car, or electrical upgrades + 3k-5k rms amp. After box rise your subs wont see much power at all so you are right now severely underpowering those subs if they really are rated for 1500 rms.

Oh shoot okay that makes more sense now.  You're exactly right,  I've always thought that clipping originates from the subs. whereas basically you're saying when im turning up my speakers and trying to get more output,  my subs are asking for tons of power but my amplifier is not capable of supplying that much power so it just starts scrambling and puts out wavelengths to the sub that are clipping which in turn causes my subs to clip? Is that correct, did I understand you correctly?

But maybe this could help., so I had 1 type x at first and they're rated at 900 rms individually on my 1000 RMS amp. Yet I couldn't even turn my gain half way up without it clipping. I do also always crank my volume all the way up. Could the volume be the issue (basically asking for too much output?) Would I maybe benefit from upgrading speakers so I dont have to turn my volume to nearly full power? I definitely am gonna do a big 3 upgrade and find a new amp... what other electrical upgrades would you suggest and do you know where I could find a quality amp for a decent deal? 

Thank you so much for helping a new and learning person as myself to car audio 

 

[fithwheel]

So I am running at 2 ohms. But heres where 8m still confused, despite getting responses to this question, but my jl rd1000.1 has a light that shows when you're clipping and they are still clipping despite only receiving half their RMS power... I dont get how or why that's happening... 

how are you getting a 2ohm load out of 2 d4s?

 Your getting good info about clipping. Re read re read then ask if you still don't understand.

2 15s require a lot of space. I know that trunk is big but i doubt big enough for 2 15s ported. You have 2 good subs. personally I'd get more power on them with a better box. Oh and stop clipping the **** out of them in the meantime b 4 you f them up. At the price for those subs I'd probably be pretty upset if 1 fails but it would be your fault if 1 does

 

[fithwheel]

gains not a volume knob

 

[Sepeti522]

No you dont understand what clipping is at all. Its not originating from the sub, its the amp thats clipping. You clip the signal from trying to get more power out of the amp than the amp can provide which forces a shitty dirty signal to your sub which causes massive heat build ups. It doesnt matter what the subs are rated at, its irrelevant, its your amp completely maxed out and you trying to get more out of the amp. Its purely a weak amplifier issue, no relation to the sub's rms values whatsoever.

Basically you dont like how weak it sounds, you crank the gain up and now the subs sound like complete **** without getting any louder and you'll eventually blow them like that. 

Either get a more efficient box design, A louder car, or electrical upgrades + 3.5k rms korean amp and wire to half ohm. After box rise your subs wont see much power at all so you are right now severely underpowering those subs if they really are rated for 1500 rms.   Why wire to half ohm? because of box rise.  Doesnt matter what the amp says, right now you are wired to 2 ohms you'll never get 1000 rms out of the amp, when the sub moves and the coil travels through the magnet, your impedance will change depending on the frequencies played. 

Being wired to 2 ohms you are more likely seeing 4-8 ohms power out of the amp so more like 300-600 rms total for both subs which is severely under powered wich each sub getting less than 300 watts each. Its not because the amp is bad or under performing, thats just how physics and car audio works, you are getting proper power just at a much higher actual real world impedance. Go do a few true rms clamp tests in a few car audio competitions and you'll quickly see that you'll never get the 1 or 2 ohm claimed power rating out of any amp unless its a regulated power supply amp.  Box rise is typically 3 x your wired impedance so thats why i'd recommend stout korean amps that can handle half ohm and you'll see around 1.5 ohm power out of them and they are usually underatted so you'll get the full rms power needed to fully power your type x

Seriously thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. K so im going to look at some of those amps.  Am I allowed to ask a good place to find a quality amp like that? And also do you mind me asking what box rise is? I'll go search myself but you've made everything pretty easy to understand for me. 

Also do you think the big 3, another battery, and switching to 0 gauge wire will help? Dylanbeatz gave me some of those suggestions. I'm definitely gonna do big 3 but wanted assurance I should switch to 0 gauge and also if an agm battery would work without an alternator upgrade or addition? 

Are double/ triple posts not allowed?

 

[Sepeti522]

gains not a volume knob

K I know the gain is different from volume.  I dont know why that was even brought up. But yeah i dont think I understood clipping so if you see my post before this I was trying to clarify it and think I got it.  The reason I brought up volume is because someone said I'm listening to loud and that is contributing to the clipping. So I brought up volume to see if maybe upgrading speakers would help so I dont have to turn my volume up so loud. 

But basically what I've got from all this is I need to do the following

1.get me a solid amp rated around 3.5 k 

2. Upgrade my electrical. (Big 3 for sure and maybe battery and alt. Still waiting on answers if I should)

3. Build a custom box

4 possible switch to 0 gauge wires. 

Does that sound about right?

@Jeffdachef 

 

[fithwheel]

 Yet I couldn't even turn my gain half way up without it clipping. I do also always crank my volume all the way up.

this is why it was brought up. also idk what you r using for a source signal but if you r turning your volume all the way up you could be sending your amp a clipped signal so it will not matter if you have your gain set right. just trying to help man you did not understand clipping so maybe a safe assumption on my part you may not understand what gains are. Idk seen it so many times b 4

 

[Sepeti522]

this is why it was brought up. also idk what you r using for a source signal but if you r turning your volume all the way up you could be sending your amp a clipped signal so it will not matter if you have your gain set right. just trying to help man you did not understand clipping so maybe a safe assumption on my part you may not understand what gains are. Idk seen it so many times b 4

No I feel you.  I'm just grateful to be learning and from you guys sharing your knowledge! But by source signal do you mean like my deck? If so, I'm using my stock radio. Impalas have a very difficult touch screen/radio to work with but I do have a 6 or 8 volt LOC hooked up to it. And yeah I do always turn my radio up to near full power. Would upgrading my speakers maybe help so I won't have to turn it up so high and start sending dirty signals out? Am I understanding that right?

 

[fithwheel]

No I feel you.  I'm just grateful to be learning and from you guys sharing your knowledge! But by source signal do you mean like my deck? If so, I'm using my stock radio. Impalas have a very difficult touch screen/radio to work with but I do have a 6 or 8 volt LOC hooked up to it. And yeah I do always turn my radio up to near full power. Would upgrading my speakers maybe help so I won't have to turn it up so high and start sending dirty signals out? Am I understanding that right?

yeah deck. Ya need to find out where it clips at. If your wanting to improve everything ditch the loc and go with a dsp upgrade mids and highs electrical sub amp and box  amp the mids and highs. You could just run front speakers without rear fill. Lots of ways you can go about it. Lot of options on dsp Too Alpine makes a pretty cool one on the high end more budget one would be a Dayton dsp. But yeah sounds like you're clipping by turning the deck volume up too high. 3/4 Volume would probably be safe for now. Set your gain at where you're comfortable with the volume Ie 3/4. I'm just now getting into having the need to upgrade electrical besides big 3 so I'll let someone else chime in on that but I would say you for sure need to upgrade to 0 gauge when you upgrade sub amp. Battery /batteries Possible alt. 

 

[fithwheel]

oh and how are you getting 2 4 ohm dvc subs 2 a 2 ohm load? they are 4 ohm dual voice coil subs aren't they?