GROUND WIRE PROFESSIONS plz read:

[generalGOTCHA 10+ year member]

My cousin runs his 1000Watt cheap pyramid amp, but it hits fkng hard:

Since his last system he swears on running a thick ground cable from the ground of the amplifier back to the ground of the batter as it sounds alott cleaner.

Is this OK ??

Ive never seen his system over heat or shut off in the past 5-7 months he has had it all.

I know a bit more about audio on the technical side .. but this one stumps me. You normally dont want a power wire longer than 3 ft correct ? his runs from the trunk back to the battery. He ran a temp ground to the car that was about a foot in length , turned the system up, and it wasnt as clear of bass. He put the long ground cable back on and it was clean .

Any suggestions if I do this on mine it may be ok ???

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[req 5,000+ posts]

My cousin runs his 1000Watt cheap pyramid amp, but it hits fkng hard:Since his last system he swears on running a thick ground cable from the ground of the amplifier back to the ground of the batter as it sounds alott cleaner.

Is this OK ??

Ive never seen his system over heat or shut off in the past 5-7 months he has had it all.

I know a bit more about audio on the technical side .. but this one stumps me. You normally dont want a power wire longer than 3 ft correct ? his runs from the trunk back to the battery. He ran a temp ground to the car that was about a foot in length , turned the system up, and it wasnt as clear of bass. He put the long ground cable back on and it was clean .

Any suggestions if I do this on mine it may be ok ???

your *supposed* to find the straightest route from the trunk to the battery as possible. usually running a wire back is a waste of wire because you have the car to do this for you... he *SHOULD* have made a better grounding location- ie, to the chassis rather than some bolt that he prolly didnt strip and it wasnt too tight.

if you get lots of ground loop interferance, i guess this is an easy solution, but its not recommneded as it is a waste of money.

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[forbidden 10+ year member]

This is a case of the assumed way of doing things vs another assumed way of doing things. Just because a manufacturer may write in their install manual to ensure that the ground wire is no longer than 3' does not mean that they are correct. In the same manual if it says the amp must be dropped from a height of 6' before installation would you believe it? People believe what they read because that is what they have been led to believe.

The fact of the matter is that electricity is an algebra equation. Meaning what you do to one side you MUST do to the other. I have said this time and time again and some people listen, others including installers go about things the same way instead of trying to learn something new. It is not about the amount of metal in the vehicle, it is about the resistance of the metal as current travels through it. Current flows negative to positive, thus the ground wire is one of the most important connections there is. Back to algebra here. If you are trying to put +100 amps of current into your amplifier, then the exact opposite needs to come out the ground wire. If there is a high resistance on the ground return then the equation is not equal. The equation must remain equal or as close to it as possible in order to use the system to it's full capabilities.

A good ground is usually less than 1/2 ohm of resistance on the ground return. If the ground return is not this low or cannot be made to get this low by means of the BIG 3, then it is adviseable to run a ground line direct to the battery, the same as you did for the power line. Why would you not hook a power line to a inside fuse box? Because it cannot carry enough current, the same goes for a ground.

There is generally nothing wrong with running a ground line direct to the battery, all ground terminations is a vehicle end up there regardless of where they are anyways. Some people argue that all that this does is cost the customer more $ on unnecessary wire, for those that have done it and have found the difference or have taken the time to learn about resistance on a ground return, they now know something different as your friend has.

This is summed up as simple as this. You eat a foot long sub and then someone sews your buttcheeks closed, get the drfit. This is resistance on a ground return.

 

[vosschs 5,000+ posts]

This is summed up as simple as this. You eat a foot long sub and then someone sews your buttcheeks closed, get the drfit. This is resistance on a ground return

nice way to put things into perspective

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

When you have been at this as long as I and some of the other excellent people on these forums has been, you learn to make comparisons that other can understand rather simply. Another one about power wiring for an amplifier is simple. You can't hook a garden hose up to a fire hydrant. Or your amp needs to get power to make power, if I wrap my hands around your throat for sleeping with my sister you will struggle for air, correct? The same thing goes for using a power / ground wire to small for an amp. Use too small a guage of wire and the amp will struggle to make power.

 

[generalGOTCHA 10+ year member]

I appreciate the help. I dont give a flat &&& about the cost.. if u spend 500$ already on just an amp alone and ground wire combined.. might as well get the best sound out of it and whats running one more direct wire back to the ground to ensure a perfect grounding connection.

All I know, is I heard a difference enough to make me do the same regardless of cost:

 

[sumone 10+ year member]

hey forbidden, what's the best way to measure the amount of resistance on the FULL ground return with a dmm? wouldn't you have to have one lead on the neg. terminal of the amp and the other lead on the neg. terminal of the battery? is there an easier way...?

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

You are almost there. You need to see if there is any resistance in the probes (should be next to none). Next if the leads cannot reach the battery to amplifier you need to make an extension wire (or have one already made up just for instances like this) and make a note of any resistance through it. Now disconnect the ground wire from the amp and make sure it is not touching metal. Take one probe and touch it to this bare wire end (taking care not to touch it) and take the other end and touch it to the - battery terminal. This will give you a reading in ohms. Subtract any of the readings from the probes or extension line from this reading for your total. This can also be done as a step by step to go from alternator to battery, battery to chassis, chassis to amp etc.... An important note here is to not touch the probes or the bare wire with your hands, it will throw the reading out the window.

 

[LBX2G 10+ year member]

oooooookkkkk but i think mad noise when u try to add an other compent to that mix u will know why.

Oh and also if the manufacture said throw the amp six feet before i use I would do it. WHO amp to question there product that they build. I mean they know there equipment better than i do. Especially if they hand built it.

 

[LBX2G 10+ year member]

oh and is this question not on the MECP certification test?

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

Care to elaborate on the first part of the comment? Second part of the comment based on my almost 20 years in the industry, have you ever heard of a misprint or poor translation. Imagine following their instructions only to find out later that they were wrong. FAK man, so many companies used to have horrible manuals because the translation from Japanese to English was so poor. Lots of companies still do for that matter. With more and more crap being made in Singakoreachinatiawanapore these days and the useless manuals that come with them, it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Jamesr316 10+ year member]

On almost all Amp install write-ups I have seen on the web, and in the manuals I have for my amps, it says to keep ground wire under 4ft. (most say 3 but a few have said 4) WHY would you know about this and the companies that manufacturer their products do not? Is there more problems when people run it that long? That is the only reason I can think of for them saying that, besides it not being ideal. Just curious...

 

[sumone 10+ year member]

A good ground is usually less than 1/2 ohm of resistance on the ground return. If the ground return is not this low or cannot be made to get this low by means of the BIG 3, then it is adviseable to run a ground line direct to the battery, the same as you did for the power line. Why would you not hook a power line to a inside fuse box? Because it cannot carry enough current, the same goes for a ground.

I think that sums it up....

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

Thanks dude. MECP is not all that's it's cracked up to be. I would hire a person with experience and no ticket before I would hire a person with no experience and a ticket. The MECP does not cover all the bases is what it comes down to. It has developed only in the last few years and they continue to develop and get more involved every year. In other words, they too are always going to be learning. So what about those of us that came from the days of Alpine school and the days before that even? Do you think that these problems that you are just finding out about now did not exist back then because there was no MECP to tell you otherwise? Like I said earlier, my advice comes from almost 20 years of hands on experience in the treches we like to call the car audio bay.

 

[LBX2G 10+ year member]

i am not knockin ur advise. But i am shure that when the techinishion had to be cerfited to work on cars that there program was all that either. I mean of course the mecp is steddie learing. I car audio just started to blow in the 90s (I think). But i am not kncokin ur knowledge at all. But i will keep my ground wire under 4 feet.

But urs does have some truth cus, they do make ground distrobutor blocks.