four channels, six pointsources

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

1x Alpine CDA-9830

1x four channel amp

1x crossover (sub, rear [low,-mid,-high], front [low,-mid,-high])

2x CDT tweets

2x CDT 6.5" mids

2x Adire SF-7

1x mono amp,

1x sub

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The CDT tweet location is far from the CDT mid location,

The SF-7 won't fit in the rear deck, but they could go in the doors - thereby displacing the CDT mids.

2000hz and up = tweets

200hz to 2000hz = cdt mids

75hz to 200hz = adire sf7

25hz to 75hz = re se

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What's the conventional way to do this?

1) Ditch the SF7, deal with weak midbass

2) Ditch time-alignment and full active, use passive xover for CDT mids & tweets

3) Tweets off the headunit, use as 0 reference for time-alignment

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a) How far off are my xover points

b) How high can I run the SF7s in rearward or center placement before I destroy the stage

Click to read more...

 

[GCAdidas13 10+ year member]

conventional way:

NOT #3 - potential "delay" in sound from running some speakers from HU -> Speaker then others HU->Proc->Amp->Speaker (my horns / subs did this on my alpine eq)

NOT #1 - weak midbass is just that - weak //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif of course you have the ef's installed now? so you'd know if it's weak midbass..

2 is fine, but where would the cdt mid go?

if you're fiberglassing you should try just putting the cdt mid in kicks, that could strengthen up the midbass enough to where you can ditch the sf7

other answers:

a.) not too far, my hd set was suggested to be crossed at 4khz so you might have to do some trial and error between 2khz and 4khz to see what works

b.) if the sf7 is a midbass then you wont want to play them at all if you put them in rearward or center placement

i can't tell if you have one or two sf7's, you referenced them as being both singular and plural

but yea.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

which cdts?

CDT EF-61CFi. CDT says they'll play down to 55, but I don't expect much from them that low in my doors, and I'd rather cross them up kinda high. That's what the SF7 are for //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

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There are two SF-7(s); I have nothing installed currently, I'm still prepping and primping the car.

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The potential for delay in 3 sounds like a valid concern.

The car is already too small for me, so kicks are out of the question.

I could maybe glass the door.

But I just got done wrapping that b!tch in vinyl. I'd hate to rip it up.

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There's almost no info around on the SF-7, save for a thread where wiggins claims they'll play up to around 3k, and have an inch of stroke. The midbass is the main disappointment for me in my current car.

 

[GCAdidas13 10+ year member]

CDT EF-61CFi. CDT says they'll play down to 55, but I don't expect much from them that low in my doors, and I'd rather cross them up kinda high. That's what the SF7 are for //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Ya i read the sig after posting so i edited //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

BTW my HD's were only supposed to go down to 65 but they took 40hz tones quite loudly in kicks - a few of my friends actually thought i had subs installed

basically you can get 40hz out of them, but they won't be able to play as loudly as they would if you were to cross them at 80 or so.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

If you don't have the room to do a proper 3-way frontstage, I would run active with the CDT tweeters and try both the CDT mid and Adire SF7 mid and see which you like better...and keep the one you like better installed //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

^ sounds like a good place to start.

 

[GCAdidas13 10+ year member]

Yeah, and if you do end up putting one or the other into the door, do everything you can to make the "infinite baffle" as infinite as possible - ie use deadening, MDF baffles, caulk, etc etc...

Should also probably put a layer of resin down on the MDF if you do that - you do not want water to get to them.

But, with my old DLS UR6's (Which had amazing midbass in kicks, I believe you heard that setup but maybe not) they could not do anything in the doors, even with all prior things mentioned accomplished (MDF, Deadening, Caulk, etc)

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Several other options are to add a more extensive time delay/crossover processing network and another amp.

I am currently running CDT Euros with the midbass in the door in a little fiberglass pod that I built and grafted into the door and the tweet on the dash. The separation between the two isn't posing a problem with staging or imaging. The soundstange sits about 6" above the dash and, using just 2 channels of time alignment, center stage is right at the center of the dash.

My basic point with that is that you can use physical placement of the speakers to eliminate the need for some of the time alignment by equalizing pathlengths not left to right but between the mid and tweet, allowing a single delay set to compensate for the left/right difference while the physical distance from driver to listener for the mid and tweet for each side is the same (or really close). You would have to use a passive crossover for the mid/tweet, which isn't a bad thing, since IME the CDT crossovers are very good. This leaves the last pair of amp channels and time delay channels to use on the midbasses.

As has already been mentioned, if you can't get the midbasses up front and separated left to right, you are better off without them. Putting them in the rear will kill the staging. They will very easily be audibly located behind you and will drag the stage to the rear. I thought about adding a 3-way setup to the front of my car but between the space taken up by my size 12s and the small footwells in my car, kickpanel mounting was out and, pretty much, so was the option of a 3-way setup. I overcame the somewhat weak midbass response by building a sealed enclosure for the mids for the door mount and running a bunch of power to them. I had a 225HCCA running on them to begin with in stereo. The amp will easily do 75ish W/ch but it wasn't enough to get the speakers to really sing. What I ended up with was a 225HCCA bridged to each side of the front stage. The extra power helped a ton. The midbass is enough to move your pant legs.

Just a few more things to consider.