For the last time, PLEASE: clipping does NOT blow speakers/subwoofers

[BEAVER.989 10+ year member]

Does everyone who used a dmm to set their gains feel silly now?

Might as well do it by ear if clipping causes no harm. Cooincidently, this is the way I do it, anyhow.

 

[MyFartsStink 10+ year member]

clip you you clippin clip

 

[sonic purity 10+ year member]

Clipping also causes tooth decay.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

But the whole point in this thread is to point out that there are no risks involved in running a clipped signal to a sub. Hence the title
For the last time, PLEASE: clipping does NOT blow speakers/subwoofers

Honestly, I've only really read the thread since page 14 or so ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif ), but I believe his premise was that it's not the clipped signal itself, but the excess power created by clipping that causes the damage. Not that there are no risks associated with clipping.

You can send a clipped signal to a speaker without causing damage as long as the average power of that signal is within the power handling limits of the driver. The only way to cause damage with a clipped signal is if the average power level of the signal is beyond the power handling limits of the driver. Hence, it's not the clipping that causes damage, but the power of the signal.

It sounds semantical, but it's not.

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

I set all my gains by ear, you learn

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I'm not trying to disagree, or shit on anyones carpet, but I do have a question...
If it's only excess power that kills speakers, then how can you blow a speaker with head unit power? We all know there aren't any head units capable of excessive power levels. I always assumed clipping was the cause. If not, what is?

Why are headunits not capable of excessive power levels?

A headunit capable of 15w @ 4ohm per channel should be capable of about ~11V peak. For a fully clipped signal, this would be ~30w. There are certainly drivers on the market, especially OEM speakers, not capable of handling 30w for extended periods of time.

For a true test, try clipping that headunit to a 500w RMS sub and report back with your findings //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If the sub doesn't blow, what does that tell you? That the clipped signal will only damage a driver if it's power level exceeds the power handling limits of the driver? Maybe?

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Does everyone who used a dmm to set their gains feel silly now?
Might as well do it by ear if clipping causes no harm. Cooincidently, this is the way I do it, anyhow.

No one said that, and you know it.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

the clipped signal will only damage a driver if it's power level exceeds the power handling limits of the driver.

This is all that needs to be said.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Which was said in the first post //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

edit: First explanatory post

 

[sonic purity 10+ year member]

Honestly, I've only really read the thread since page 14 or so ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif ), but I believe his premise was that it's not the clipped signal itself, but the excess power created by clipping that causes the damage. Not that there are no risks associated with clipping.
You can send a clipped signal to a speaker without causing damage as long as the average power of that signal is within the power handling limits of the driver. The only way to cause damage with a clipped signal is if the average power level of the signal is beyond the power handling limits of the driver. Hence, it's not the clipping that causes damage, but the power of the signal.

It sounds semantical, but it's not.

Yes, but thats like saying its not big deal to run your cars engine without water, as long as it doesnt get overheated. Because its the heat that causes the failure, not the lack of water.

I think its pretty well accepted that too much power can cause driver failure. But telling people that clipping can cause failure is just another way of saying clipping can cause more power then expected to the sub.

Also, one thing that you are not taking into account is that with a clipped signal, the voicecoil stays in the position longer then the normal excursion, causing more heat to build up in that section of the coil.

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

an amplifier driven iton clipping blows a speaker, under powering no, if the amplifier isnt driven into clipping, overpowering, yes, but if you tell me clipping doenst blow a speaker then I will give you my faith (which I did about 15 years ago), nothing here has proved to me that clipping doesnt blow a speaker

 

[sonic purity 10+ year member]

This is all that needs to be said.

You forgot tooth decay

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

But telling people that clipping can cause failure is just another way of saying clipping can cause more power then expected to the sub.

But it's NOT the same thing! People mistakenly assume they mean the same thing, when they in fact don't. And this assumption leads people to drawing erroneous conclusions.

You can easily send a clipped signal to a driver without damaging it. It just has to be below the power handling limits of the driver. So what does this simple experiment say to your definition of clipping? That it's wrong //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

EDIT: Okay, not "wrong" per say as it does lead to increased power. But you are assuming that the person on the receiving end of your statement understands this the same as you do....and they may not, leading to confusion and/or misunderstanding....as clearly demonstrated in this thread. But regardless...clipping doesn't cause failure, power does. The statement clipping causes failure is inherently wrong.

Also, one thing that you are not taking into account is that with a clipped signal, the voicecoil stays in the position longer then the normal excursion, causing more heat to build up in that section of the coil.

Because I've yet to see any evidence that this significantly impacts the driver in any way //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif The one test I've seen that actually aimed at identifying precisely this, showed that there was no significant difference in driver failure when driven with two signals of equal power, one sine wave and one clipped (square) wave.

Remember that the driver is still receiving significant cooling (compared with a sine wave). A 60hz signal is still moving back and forth 60 times per second, just the same as a sine wave.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

an amplifier driven iton clipping blows a speaker, under powering no, if the amplifier isnt driven into clipping, overpowering, yes, but if you tell me clipping doenst blow a speaker then I will give you my faith (which I did about 15 years ago), nothing here has proved to me that clipping doesnt blow a speaker

Yeah, I guess integral calculus, discrete mathematics and four and a half (I'm the half, I'm still undergrad //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif) EEs don't stand for anything.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

an amplifier driven iton clipping blows a speaker, under powering no, if the amplifier isnt driven into clipping, overpowering, yes, but if you tell me clipping doenst blow a speaker then I will give you my faith (which I did about 15 years ago), nothing here has proved to me that clipping doesnt blow a speaker

Okay.

Send a 50w fully clipped signal to a true 500w RMS sub.

If clipping blows subs, then the sub should clearly be damaged.

Run the experiment. Report back with your findings. If the sub fails to blow, you owe me your faith. Squeak will be your God.

Agreed?