For the last time, PLEASE: clipping does NOT blow speakers/subwoofers

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

If you walk outside you can get hit by a bus. You can also die driving. Or a heart attack from eating red meat. What the hell is your point?

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[AVSTANG02]

If you walk outside you can get hit by a bus. You can also die driving. Or a heart attack from eating red meat. What the hell is your point?
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clipping kills speakers.

 

[AVSTANG02]

saying that clipping does not kill speakers is being too specific....

Doesn't matter aslong as people realize that clipping causes the speaker to heat up at a faster rate and heat can cause the speaker to fail....

 

[AVSTANG02]

Does having your RMS set wrong (too high) cause your subs to blow?

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

AV, you're very smart and I've learned a lot from you, but take my advice this time and just let this thread die. It got cluster****ed to hell and back //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

If their is a chance that clipping will cause a speaker to fail than clipping does cause a speaker to fail...
Just because it doesn't happen every time doesn't mean it doesn't happen..

I dunno why this is so hard to comprehend..

Does your motor over heating cause it to seize up and fail 100% of the time? and when I say that I mean get permanently damaged and be needing to be replaced/fixed like a blown speaker..

No.. Often (most of the time) it just over heats let it cool down and you are good to go...

The differentiation comes from the fact that it's not the act of clipping that causes the damage, but the increased power that results from clipping. It's not semantics. The moral of the story is that POWER is the only way to damage a speaker, and clipping can potentially lead to an excessive amount of POWER being applied to the speaker.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

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[moh.vze.com 10+ year member]

When you guys use the scope to check for clipping, if it shows a "tiny bit of clip" on the wave when you look at the scope, is that bad?

Just a little sniplit off the tip of a wave is not too bad right?

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

Just to elaborate on what PV is saying, let's add some math...
Say you are sending subwoofer A 1500w RMS @ 1 ohm with a clean sine wave. We'll say the frequency is equal to that of a fundamental sine wave.

Voltage = SQRT(W*R) = sqrt(1500 * 1) = sqrt(1500) = 38.72v

This is RMS wattage. Divide this by .707 and you get 54.76v peak voltage.

So now we have the peak and the period of the sine wave, so lets make it into an equation we can integrate.

Y = 54.76 sin(x)

Integrate this equation from 0 to Pi, and you will get the area under the curve.

54.76*-cos(pi) - 54.76*-cos(o)

54.76 + 54.76 = 109.52 units^2

Now for the easy part. A full square wave from 0 to pi is simply multiplying the length times the height. In this case, the length is Pi and the height is 54.76 (volts)

Pi * 54.76 = 172.03

Divide 172 by 109; This will give you the percentage increase in RMS wattage.

172/109 = 157%

Multiply by the original RMS wattage.

1500* 1.57 = 2355w

Although this is the extreme case of a fully clipped signal (Which isn't too hard to achieve anyway), it shows you that you can go from 1500w to a whopping 2355 by clipping.

Edit: After doing all this work I forgot I could've pulled the 54.76 out of the equation and simply integrated sin(x) from 0 to Pi and then multiplied after !

The last time I checked if we have a square wave with an amplitude equal to the peak of a sine wave, we will have twice the power of the sine wave.... (ie 3000 watts, not 2355)

what am I missing here ?

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

I have not read this whole thead but several responses have made me both LOL and shake my head..... a key point to consider:

The PSU in your average amplifier is only going to have the current capacity to put out 20-30 percent more power then the amplifier is rated for... at that point you run into a clipping mode where there is no increase in output power, but power is transfered into harmonics... (ie distortion skyrockets with no increase in output)

Clipping past this point with a musical signal will continue to compress the signal and increase average output, but this tends to be a practical limit because this is the point where the output begins to sound really bad....

In general I do not agree with the notion that someone who is clipping their amp will be better off with more a powerfull amplifier as far as the health of subs or speakers go... the user will likey kill thier equipment even faster... and if you believe clipping can cause failure, so might listening to your equipment for a little longer then normal....

All in all, I tend to agree with the guys from Autosound Engineering... (the guys who literally wrote the book on car audio)

"clipping is rarely the root cause of driver failure"

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

The last time I checked if we have a square wave with an amplitude equal to the peak of a sine wave, we will have twice the power of the sine wave.... (ie 3000 watts, not 2355)
what am I missing here ?

Indeed, generally the most simple way to demonstrate this is through a basic application of ohms law.

Sine wave w/ a peak voltage of 54.76V into 1ohm;

54.76V * .707 = 38.72V

38.72^2/1 = 1500w

Square wave w/ a peak voltage of 54.76V into 1ohm;

54.76^2/1 = 2999w (rounding error)

EDIT: Realized I should probably clarify for those unfamiliar, that the reason for this is because for a sine wave, the RMS voltage equals .707 the peak voltage. For a square wave, the RMS voltage = peak voltage.

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Squeak, this forum is very lucky to have you..

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

for some reason I always understand squeak, good read here, amongst all the garbage that goes on here

 

[sonic purity 10+ year member]

I have seen alot of proof on this thread that clipping is a cause of driver failure. I have yet to see any proof that it doesnt.

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

interesting