Extended/Full Range vs Tweeter

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Let me preface this with I dont want to do any customization to my pillars or door panels other than your standard CCF and deadener treatments. I will be getting rid of this car soon and it will become my wife's daily driver. Due to this fact I want to keep the interior as stock as possible so I can swap everything over to my car once the near year rolls around.

This brings me to my predicament. I have 6 channels on my Audio System Twister F6. I have active capabilities with my Alpine CDA-9887. Also have TrueRTA along with the Imprint for measurement purposes. The tweeters I have are Morel made Xtant 28mm tweeters and Eclipse SC6500 mids.

As of right now Im only using channels 5/6 on my sub at 2 ohms bridged on my TC based Audiomobile Evo.

I want to run a 2 way active front stage. Its all I have channels for and I dont have room to expand for amp placement.

Option 1: Tweeter and Midbass

Option 2: Extended/Full Range and Midbass

When it comes to extended/full range vs tweeters would I be ok going active with a solid full range such as the Aura 3" bambo and my midbass? Or is it better to run a tweeter and midbass? What are the pros and cons of each scenario?

Click to read more...

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

depends, most fullrange drivers don't have the crisp twinkle sound tweeters will have. That's why you usually see Ht full range horns with super tweeters sitting on top. If you don't like bright highs you will be fine with full range, if you like bright highs you will want to use tweeters. You will be fine freq range with either if you use the right drivers but the tweeter usually sounds brighter while the fr is more smooth sounding.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

oh and the best thing about running fullranges is being able to cross them lower raising your sound stage and making sure your not letting your mids distort the higher notes.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

Dont like harsh tweeters. Just want things to blend well. What types of extended/full range speakers should I look at and what locations should I consider? I was thinking the 3" Aura bambo speakers or some Tang Bands. They have a nice selection of 2-3" drivers on PE. I think 4" drivers will be a little to big.

I was considering the following:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-828

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-805

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-844

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-380

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-815

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-910

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

where are they mounted?

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

where are they mounted?

I want to keep things as stock as possible so most likely just above the mid in the door.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 295-380

Markaudio Alpair-6M Gold 3.5" Fullrange Gen 2: Madisound Speaker Store

either one of those are what I'd use.

 

[Micksh 10+ year member]

I am interested in experimenting with extended-range drivers also. From so many of the (seemingly hundreds...lol) of posts I've read, people seem to love the Tang Band W3-1364SA bamboo cone drivers, along with some Fostex drivers too. (and of course the higher-end ones from Hybrid Audio and Audible Physics, which unfortunately are a little out of my price range)

From everything I read, wenn_du_weinst is correct that the main thing is whether you like that "sizzle" at the top end or not....I tend to like that myself, as I have some Vifa ring radiators that I LOVE. I just may have to try the Tang Bands though...

 

[thehardknoxlife 10+ year member]

I'd opt for the Dayton RS100. It's actually closer to a 3" driver and it plays very low for it's size. I think mine are crossed at 250hz on up, it is a teensy bit rugged on the top side but some nifty eq skill will clear that right up. Just don't be too aggressive with them crossed so low. Love 'em. Hard to beat for the price. After being tweeter less for so long I'll never go back. The sound stage is much less localized. If you prefer a brighter top end, look into the Fountek FR88. Although it's a almost twice as much as the Dayton last time I checked. It's not as good as the Dayton on the low side but worlds better everywhere else, like most full range drivers it will need to be eq'd on the top side. One of the better full range drivers I've used. A really cheap fix would be the Hi-Vi B3S, for under $15 a woofer they sound great.

P.S. You still owe me $100 from the bet you lost on TUF results.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

I Run the tangband w4 1320sj in my 3 way front. If theyre off axis in your doors, you're gonna need tweeters. Even with alot of eq up top i still wasnt able to get good highs without tweeters

On axis, they do pretty well. But beaming kills the highs off axis. Since you're not doing custom pillars, stick with tweeters. They do very well as extended midrange though.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Plus your sound becomes more directional since the passenger side driver is more on axis so any highs you can hear from them will be coming from your right and directly from that speaker. This is all from personal experience. Nothing I read online.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I have been experimenting with full range drivers in my Accord the past few months. 9887 with xtant amps and even an Alpine DRE-A200 active crossovers.

I tried them in 3 locations. Dash facing up reflecting off glass, a-pillar off axis. A-pillar on axis. I tried a selection of drivers from Parts Express and Madisound. 2-3" in size.

Off axis doesn't give enough high frequency information. The sound is smooth and pleasant but the drivers need to be on axis. Height is crucial. I was curious if having them off axis would help with IID but you lose too much detail.

I used a variety of crossover points down to 200Hz. I tried 2-way with door or kick woofers, and 3-way with door woofers and kick midrange. My focus was sound stage and frequency response.

I think off axis with speakers that maintain high frequency response at 60deg could be worth trying. Door locations would probably be too low.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

I Run the tangband w4 1320sj in my 3 way front. If theyre off axis in your doors, you're gonna need tweeters. Even with alot of eq up top i still wasnt able to get good highs without tweetersOn axis, they do pretty well. But beaming kills the highs off axis. Since you're not doing custom pillars, stick with tweeters. They do very well as extended midrange though.

My EQ and Time alignment is far superior to what you have with your Pioneer.

I have been experimenting with full range drivers in my Accord the past few months. 9887 with xtant amps and even an Alpine DRE-A200 active crossovers.
I tried them in 3 locations. Dash facing up reflecting off glass, a-pillar off axis. A-pillar on axis. I tried a selection of drivers from Parts Express and Madisound. 2-3" in size.

Off axis doesn't give enough high frequency information. The sound is smooth and pleasant but the drivers need to be on axis. Height is crucial. I was curious if having them off axis would help with IID but you lose too much detail.

I used a variety of crossover points down to 200Hz. I tried 2-way with door or kick woofers, and 3-way with door woofers and kick midrange. My focus was sound stage and frequency response.

I think off axis with speakers that maintain high frequency response at 60deg could be worth trying. Door locations would probably be too low.

They will be off axis for sure. Which drivers did you have the best success with from the 2-3" drivers you used?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

My EQ and Time alignment is far superior to what you have with your Pioneer.

at the high frequencies in question, t/a wont help. I doubt your "superior" EQ will either, off-axis, youre simply not going to pick up the high frequencies like you would with actual tweeters. I'm all for trying new things, but just like you were always there to tell me the stupid factors of my ideas, I'm here for you too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

the only way it's gonna work is having those drivers on axis, other wise, beaming will knock all of your highs right out. your EQ and T/A cant put something there thats not there to begin with.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

at the high frequencies in question, t/a wont help. I doubt your "superior" EQ will either, off-axis, youre simply not going to pick up the high frequencies like you would with actual tweeters. I'm all for trying new things, but just like you were always there to tell me the stupid factors of my ideas, I'm here for you too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
the only way it's gonna work is having those drivers on axis, other wise, beaming will knock all of your highs right out. your EQ and T/A cant put something there thats not there to begin with.

Never was going to use EQ to put something there that wasnt. There is a reason you cut instead of boost.